sand, peat moss, and pH

[zmo63]

I posted last week about possibilities for mixing a sandy substrate for kuhlis and plants. I should have just looked in the loach book, because it suggested something I think would be perfect - sand and peat moss mixed together.

I assume since it's in the book, people around here have done it. Does anyone have pictures?

I'm also wondering about the effects of the peat moss on my pH. Water comes out of the tap at 7 around here. If I have a 36" tank (40 gallon) with a thick bed of sand and peat, will the pH plummet beyond a safe range? Does it just keep dropping, or will it plateau after a while? Will I need to add something to counteract the peat moss? Is that as difficult and dangerous as it sounds?

I've never had to tinker with pH, so I'm confused.

Thank you!

[chefkeith]

I can't answer all your questions, but you should get to know your kH and gH before adding peat. Peat will lower the kH/gh through ion exchange, but also add humic acids and tannins to the water.

When lowering pH with any method, the filtration should be increased so that ammonia/nitrites in the water column are cycled faster.

[starsplitter7]

My only advice for you is to check the peat moss really carefully when you buy. Companies are starting to add a lot of junk to it like fertilizers. (I need pure peat, no additives for my Carnivorous Plants).

I have never used peat in my tanks, s I can't tell you anything else.

[Tinman]

will the pH plummet beyond a safe range?

That depends upon the amount used. More than a cup could/would have major effects on your tank .The amount is depending on your water make up presently.The term I've seen used here is your mileage may vary.

Does it just keep dropping, or will it plateau after a while?

Same answer as above .It stops working in my system in about 1.5-2 weeks. I add a pillow with 2 handfulls to treat my entire system as I trickle change water 24/7. This reduces my TDS and drops my ph almost 1 point on 1200 US gallons. I change the peat pillow out every two weeks.

Will I need to add something to counteract the peat moss?

Don't do it then reset by another means. You need consistancy to keep fish well. What are you trying to accomplish,just a better substrate?Something inert would be better but you leave open the non removal of waste in the pockets below the surface. IMO This sounds dangerous beyond the upsides to me. The note I saw in the book refered to habitat which has fresh water introduced across this substrate continually, it is not a closed loop like an aqaurium. I did see pics with decayed almond leaves in that section in a tank. They can be had on Ebay.Start with only a few,a handful can upset your balance possibly.Baby steps as they say...

sand and peat moss mixed together.

I would think this mix might be used for breeding or in very hard water.

I do not keep these fish but if this is what you want use spent peat. It has no effect after several weeks of use. It may deteriorate over time and cause a drop from the decaying matter that would/could be harmful.
I have this issue using Almond leaves,they decay in a few weeks and must be removed and replaced.
Intresting question, I look forward to more input from the forum....

[zmo63]

I really appreciate all of your replies - I've never had a problem keeping pH consistent, and I definitely don't want to create problems.

My goal is to have a substrate that will keep both my plants and my kuhlis happy. They're on eco-complete right now, but I'm upgrading the tank, so I'm exploring other options that would be better for the kuhlis. My thinking now is to just go with a simple inert sand substrate, and use root tabs for the plants. Diana had suggested dividing the front and back and using eco-complete in the back for stem plants. So I'll explore that option too.

[Tinman]

Diana had suggested dividing the front and back and using eco-complete in the back for stem plants. So I'll explore that option too.

You will do well listening to her.She always has quality advice. I keep only fish,not plants .....

[Diana]

Test in a bucket. Keep track of pH, KH and GH for a week or two. If you can add an air bubbler to keep the water moving this will help. If you like the results then add a small amount of peat to the filter in a nylon stocking to slowly change the water for the fish and acclimate them slowly to the new conditions. When you do water changes you will likely need to prepare the water a day or two ahead of time by adding peat moss to a bucket of water and circulating it until the water tests show it is similar to the tank parameters.

I started with tap water:
KH and GH around 5 degrees, pH varies from 7.5 to 8+ (one friend measured it at 9!)

I set up a tank with soil master select, which is known to remove all the KH and drop the pH to 6.0
and peat moss, which can also remove a certain amount of calcium and magnesium (GH) and add organic acids to the water.

My Angels were breeding about every 10-14 days.

[zmo63]

Diana, you (and everyone else) have convinced me not to go through with this idea. I love to learn new things, but I think I need a few more fish-keeping years on me before I go messing with a peat moss substrate. I need to stick with inert sand for now.

Thanks for letting me bounce ideas though. I love this forum!