Enticing the little Darlings out...

[monkeh]

Hello all, and sorry if this post is in the wrong place.
I have just got rid of 2 goldfish from my tank after 'Blue' the red tailed loach attacked the smallest of the 3 and killed it (gradual fin nipping and once cornered he would go for the body of the fish) The Goldfish were moved to another tank and now NONE of the loaches want to come out.
When the goldfish were in the tank, they were out all the time.
Inventory:
5 Clowns
1 Red tailed loach 'Blue'
2 Pakistani Loach
1 Golden Zebra loach
1 Kuhli loach
1 Common plecostomus

So in a futile attempt to at least get some life into the tank, I went and bought 'Gums' the red tailed shark.
I know that the loaches are nocturnal, but even after dropping a packet of live bloodworm in, After 30 seconds, still no life, before it was an insane mad dash for them!

I have noticed that 'Blue' is very aggressive to the pakistani and golden zebra loach but leaves the clowns alone, even the new addition who is half the size of 'Blue'

Asking advice, Will 'Blue' fight with 'Gums' and what do you think the best option is to bring some life back into the tank without adding live bait or fish that will just be harassed and eaten?

IMHO I think that because of the lack of mid-top feeders the loaches are nervous/scared that something will happen.


Cheers
Gareth

[Mad Duff]

Hi Gareth, by the sounds of it "blue" is a Yasuhikotakia modesta which are more suited to life in groups of its own kind are best suited to tanks containing other aggressive loach species.

More info can be found here: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/ya ... ia-modesta

Red tailed sharks are a another very aggressive species and would be well suited also to a tank containing the more aggressive species.

For Clowns especially but for most of the more timid loaches "dither fish" are used to help them feel safe withing their environment, most Danio and Rasbora species make excellent "dithers"

I notice you said you had goldfish in the tank, what temperature is your tank at ?

What size is your tank as this could also have a bearing on aggression levels and how happy the fish are.

[Diana]

I would add upper level dithers, not a competitor for their caves and hideouts.

Many Rainbow fish like warm water, though not always as soft as Loaches, Gouramis like warm, soft water, but are not fast swimmers, if there is a Loach that attacks other fish. Gouramis also do not really like as much water movement as most Loaches. Some of the medium sized Barbs might be a good choice. The activity in the upper half of the tank will signal to the Loaches that it is OK to come out of hiding.
Check both temperature and water chemistry requirements before adding anything to the tank.

'Blue' is behaving in a manner that is natural to him (being a more aggressive Loach). You may need another tank, and let him be the lone Loach, with no competition for housing, and try some fish that stay away from the bottom as tank mates.

[monkeh]

Hi all, sorry i havent replied, ive been working. I have goldfish which have been gradually introduced to tropical temperature, which stands at 28'c i think the best thing i can do then is find another home for blue, shame i know, but its better for him, and time to invest in some gourami's or mollies. So are there any local takers for 'blue'? Im in newport, south wales.
Thanks for the advice and you shall see me more often on here! Sorry for the poor grammar, these pocket surfers are not all they are cracked up to be!

[Emma Turner]

Hi monkeh, welcome to Loaches Online.

Whilst you are rehoming your Y. modesta, you might also want to consider rehoming your kuhli loach as they prefer much calmer set ups to those that the botiid species prefer. You should also try to and up the numbers of your other loaches because all need to be kept in groups of 5 or more. You may also find that the Botia almorhae (Pakistani loaches) could become too boisterous for your clowns long-term, so keep an eye on them. Like Mad Duff, I would be interested to know the size of your tank and the filtration you use, as this will have a bearing on how many fish you can keep, what fish you can keep, and how they may behave.

Mollies and gouramis are not a good dither fish choice for the botiid loach tank, as gouramis will not like the fast flow that the loaches require, and mollies prefer hard, alkaline water (loaches are best in soft-neutral conditions). Better choices would be some of the medium-large Rasbora or Barb species (check their temp requirements first though, not all are suitable), Rainbowfish and some of the larger characins (tetras).

Hope this helps,

Emma

[monkeh]

Hi emma, thanks for the reply, I have a juwel rio 180 litre tank, with a stock filter, a fluval 2 and an eheim aquaball with only a polyester filter.
My gripe with barbs, is that when they get agressive, they attack the eyes, a friend of mine has a tyre track eel and the barb took the eels eye out. However the barb didnt survive the counterattack! The eel is still living 2 years on!
The pakistani loaches get on great with each other and shoal with the golden zebra just fine, they are coming up to 2 years old. As for the kuhli, its been in the tank for 3 years and i rarely see it, it was the only one to survive a fault in my now disposed of co2 system after the yeast went runaway! I will post some pictures of my setup.
Are there any other dither fish apart from barbs?

[Emma Turner]

Not all barbs are aggressive, and it is usually one or two species that give the whole family (which is huge and diverse) an undeserved bad name. The aggressive behaviour seen in some species can even be tamed to some degree by keeping a large sized shoal (10+) where the barbs are then more interested in each other, rather than the other occupants.

As I mentioned above, barbs are not the only choice. Have a look at some of the medium-large species of Rasbora, rainbowfish and larger tetras. There are so many to choose from.

You may think the Pakistani loaches are doing ok, but you are honestly depriving them of a natural heirarchy (and natural behaviour) by limiting their numbers. As they mature, the two are very likely to begin constantly bickering, which again, can be calmed by adding more of the same kind. I realise that some of this may be down to where you bought them from, as many places are not aware of just how social these fish are.

I am sure you know by now that your Juwel Rio 180 is not big enough for clown loaches for any real length of time. It is very important that you upgrade to a much bigger set up sooner rather than later to avoid stunting your fish. Have a read here for more ideas & info:

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus
http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium
http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-intr ... ping-botia

Emma