Paniced Loach Owner, Fish are escaping

[slick666]

Like the title says I had a fish escape. The excitement is over but I am now paranoid that I might loose some of my new prized loaches. Let me give some background.

You may have noticed my thread inquiring about the kubotai loaches. I went ahead and purchased 3 Kubotai loaches, two mature and one youngster. The two older loaches are between 4 and 5 inches in size, the youngster is about 1.5 inches. They are in a 38 gallon tank with 4 Striata that range in size from 1.5 inches to 2 inches. I've had the striata for a couple of weeks now with no problem. I just got the kubotai in the tank 7 hours ago and they seem to have acclimated fine. About 15 minutes ago I head a ruckus from the other room and found one of the large Kubotai missing and the sounds coming from behind the tank. I quick search revealed the loach flopping around under the tank!!!. I scooped him up and put him back into the tank and he seems to be fine.

I know loaches will escape from a tank but I thought I had taken proper precautions. I have a piece of plastic custom cut to fit around the filter and heater so the gaps are real tight. I "thought it was enough. Pics below.





Based on the position where he fell it seemed to be around the are of the fish filter. As you can see there is a gap to allow the water to flow into the tank.



In my panic I turned to man's best friend .... Ducktape!





I also taped the filter area closed to keep them in the filter area if they decided to try to go up it.



I would like to think I have things secure for tonight but I don't think the ducktape solution will work long term. I will have to take the lid off at some time. Does anyone have some tips for keep my loaches in the tank?! Any ideas appreciated I would like to be able to go to work confident that my fish are safe.

[bslindgren]

Can you describe the tank setup? Loaches like lots of hiding places, so if the tank is lacking in that department they may be trying to get out of there. Driftwood is great for them, for example, and lots of people use bamboo caves etc. I have never had a loach jump out, and I have not had to seal the tank - in fact it is quite open.

[slick666]

I've recently been changing that around. I used to have a funky PVC connector that didn't seem to get much of a response. I recently gt a bunch of flat rocks that I was able to stack up. I think I can do better and I'll probably stop by the store today.

The Tank has 4 large fake plants, a big rock on the right that the Plecos like to sleep in and the loaches hang around. In the center is the small rock pile I recently installed and further to the left are bubble pad and a couple larger rocks that don't make much of a hiding place.

One of the Kubotai is in the middle of the pile but the larger one doesn't seem to find a pace to fit. I'll post some pics in a few hours when I get back from work.

[helen nightingale]

how did you acclimatise the fish, and did you take water tests of the shop water compared to your tank water?

if you acclimatised too quickly, a change in water conditions could have made the loach want to try and escape.

[palaeodave]

The previous owner of my loach tank had it as a marine set up, so the lid has a few large holes cut it in for the various bits of equipment he had. Never had a fish jump out. My bet is hiding spaces too. Could you put up a whole-tank picture?

[greenbaron]

Do you have two independent thermometers in the tank to verify water temperature? Does that heater you have there have a minimum water level mark and is it submerged in water to that mark?
Probably these are stupid questions, but the only time I ever had a fish jump out it was water temperature, and it turned out my thermometer had failed. Even tho', that was a long time ago, and equipment is much more reliable these days.......

[fhm_usa]

just want to comment on your heater we used similar type eheim or ebo jagger heaters I notice it seems its to high you need to submerge it completely or atleast on the water level marking.

[slick666]

Thanks for all the responses Here's a pic of the tank zoomed out.

just want to comment on your heater we used similar type eheim or ebo jagger heaters I notice it seems its to high you need to submerge it completely or atleast on the water level marking.

I'm pretty sure the thermometer is not submersible all of the glass is below the water but it is below the water line mark. I'll try to lower the thermometer a little so it's closer to the watermark.

Do you have two independent thermometers in the tank to verify water temperature? Does that heater you have there have a minimum water level mark and is it submerged in water to that mark?

I have one thermometer in the tank. You may not be able to see it but I have the heater towards the left in the back. The thermometer Is halfway down in the front right. I set the temperature to read the 80 degrees on the thermometer.

After looking on the website I think I might need to turn it down.
Botia Striata average temp = 77
Botia Kubotia average temp = 78.5
80 is still within the range but it's on the high side.

I'll slowly bring the temp down over the next couple of days. Is there anything wrong with the thermometer placement?

how did you acclimatise the fish, and did you take water tests of the shop water compared to your tank water?

I acclimated them as best as I knew. I floated them in the tank for 30 minutes in the bag. I then washed some water in the bag and let it sit for a minute, repeated, and then released them into the tank.

Can you describe the tank setup? Loaches like lots of hiding places

I've been working on the hiding setup in the tank. I recently swapped out some pvc for the stacked rocks. I think this might not be enough for the kubotai (although the smaller one will root around in it). Here are some more pics. I just added the cave that I had on hand in hopes the kubotai might like to hide in it.



Here are the other parts in detail.







I suspect bslindgren is right. If I can guess how I think the fish feel I think they want to hide and I think they seem a little stressed. This might be my feelings being applied here but my gut says that if they could hide in a nice tight spot where no one can see then or pull them out they would relax and then start to become comfortable with there new home.

Keep the comments coming. The fish store is open tue - sun so I'll be going there tomorrow afternoon.[/code]

[slick666]

As a followup I wanted to add that I've been keeping the light off when not feeding to keep the fish calmer (although the room light may be on).

Also I noticed that the kubotai have dug out the corners. Almost all the way through the gravel. Does this indicate anything?

[chefkeith]

I'd pull that big rainbow rock out of there too. They leach something that will show up on a TDS meter.

[chefkeith]

I'd also switch the substrate to an inert sand and put a few pieces of driftwood in there. Make it feel more natural for the fish.

[helen nightingale]

More hiding places! see if you can get some bogwood - that will leach tannins into the water which is better for the loaches than the rocks leaching minerals in.

the loaches like to have lots of places to hide in to feel safer, even if its just a massive handfull of java moss.


as for acclimatisation, you have the right idea. floating the bag will get the temperature equalised, but it can take a while for the water in the tank at home to match the water from the fish shop. i float my fish in the tank to get the temperature matching, then i tip the fish and shop water into a bucket. i use a very small jug, about the same size as a small coffee cup, and i add a 1/2 jugfull at a time from my tank into the bucket. you can get more water in a bucket than you can in the bag, and the fish cant get caught up in the corners of the bag. i put some floating plants and java moss in the bucket and that seems to help the fish feel safe. i keep testing the TDS and pH untill they match. some people use a drip from a piece of airline, but knowing me i would flood the carpet and miss the bucket when the water matches up, you can catch the fish and moce them over - its easier to catch a fish ina bucket than in a bag too.

[slick666]

Bogwood it is. I'll be stopping off at the shop tomorrow, hopefully her will have a nice big piece. Will post pictures

As for swapping out the substrate I've been contemplating that for a while but with my new additions to the tank I want the place to settle for a couple of weeks so everyone can get well adjusted.

The question I've been asking myself is after I make all these changes and get the tank to a point where I think the fish wouldn't want to escape how can I go back to a point without ductape. I guess the only way to know for sure is to take the tape off and see if I catch one escaping of find one on the floor. Both don't really appeal to me. I don't think I can go back to my previous setup so are there any alternatives besides ductape?

[helen nightingale]

on one tank i had there were gaps in the hood for cables and stuff like that, where rasboras could jump though if they get stirred up. i got some cardboard and coloured it in black to match the hood, and stuck it over the holes.

the gaps i have at the back of my cover slides in my loach tank, are stuffed with filter sponge and covered in foil to stop water wicking up.

you might need to keep some way of blocking any holes up, that is a bit easier to manange than ducttape, but you are right to let them have time to settle first. when you change around the decor in the tank thats when they are lkely to feel disturbed and unsettled.

[Sixwing]

Hi!
Sorry to hear about your kubotai.

I just had the same problem with some peppered loaches. Plastic wrap, taped in place with clear tape, solved the problem temporarily, and doesn't look quite as out of place as duct tape over everything.

The permanent solution in my case was to get them out of QT and into their actual tank. It's open topped. They haven't even tried to bail now that they have a nice dark substrate, a nice dark background, and places to hide.