From Discus to Botia...=...Need help

[Guja]

Greetings everyone (sorry about bad spelling )

Recently I realized that I want to have a tank with only loaches. I had a discus tank, but since I am a student, I have no time for everyday water changes and vacuum cleaning

That is a 40gal tank. It will be heavy decorated with lots of wood, planted with large quantity of short plants (anubia batteri var. nana) and maby a big amazon sword.

...And now the questions (about stocking)...

1)So, clown loaches grow up to 12 inches. That is too large for a 40gal. But however, I heared that people keep them in smaller tanks, because then they don't grow to their full size. So, the question is can I put them in 40gal, and how many of them (a tank with clowns only)?

2)The same question as the one above, just about YoYo loaches : how many YoYo loaches can I put in a 40gal tank (YoYo species tank)?

3)Maby the best option is to have a tank with clowns, YoYo and Botia Striata. Is it good to keep this 3 species together (do they get along), and also what number of each would be the best for 40gals?

...Maintenance questions...

4)How many water changes weekly would fully stocked botia-only 40gal tank require?

5)IMPORTANT QUESTION, HELP REQUIRED : my tank will be filled with driftwood.That means that vacuum cleaning will be impossible (I can't reach the gravel because it is allmost completly covered with 15 pieces of driftwood!!!) Now if I don't vacuum the botom, a lot of waste will collect there and spoil the water. But however, loaches dig alot. Will their bottom-activity be enough to keep the tank a healty place even without vacuum-cleaning? And if not what should I do? Taking the wood out is not an option! It looks so good

Sorry because long post but I want to know....
Thanks

[shari2]

What substrate are you planning? With lots of plants, a large colony of mts (that may need replenishing regularly), water changes (fairly large and frequent) it MAY work. Eventually, though I'm thinking you'd need to break down the tank and clean out the substrate unless you can acheive that elusive 'perfect balance' and maintain it...

[Emma Turner]

A 40 gallon tank is far too small for clown loaches.

It is a complete myth that fish only grow to the size of their tank. They may grow at a slower rate, but they will outgrow it. Why would you want to stunt a fish's growth anyway?

Also, clown loaches are fairly sensitive fish and will require a fair amount of maintenance, with heavy filtration and partial water changes at least a couple of times per week.

You'd be better off changing your gravel for sand, as any crap will just sit on top of it (unlike gravel, where the crap will sink down between it where you can't see it) and then you can just siphon it off with a length of hose when you do your water changes.

No clowns in a tank that size though.

Emma

[Guja]

I totally agree! keeping 12" fish in a 34" tank is baaaad! I just read somewhere that guy keeps 5 or 6 clowns in 40gal...

However, can You recommand me a few Botia species that can be kept in a 40gal (or at least provide a good link with descriptions of Botia species). Also, what is the size of YoYo loach?

And about vacuuming : if I put sand instead of gravel, then the waste will collect on top of it. I can make current from my filter output that will push the waste towards front left side, from where it can be easily collected. The front left side is the only part of my tank where you can see the bottom. The rest is covered with wood. I hope that works...

[shari2]

Sand would definitely be your best bet. As for smaller botia there are striatas which are quite active and would be extremely attractive in a heavily wooded tank.

Or you could go for a 'grrrrr' tank with agressive fish like tiger loaches. With plenty of territorial divisions provided by the heavily stocked wood it could be VERY interesting. Hopefully Graeme will chime in on this as he has some lovely tiger specimens in his.

[Emma Turner]

Many of the Tiger loach group do get to quite a large size, so I wouldn't recomend those for a 40 gallon tank. Your best bet are the peaceful Botia striata, or smaller Botia sidthimunki.

And you are correct about the sand. Any waste will collect on top of it, and if there is good circulation it will get taken up by your filtration. Any that is missed can easily be siphoned off using a length of hose during your water changes.

Emma

[helen nightingale]

botia striata are really lovely fish. i'd definately reccommend them. and they are a bit more unusual too.

[crazie.eddie]

If you have very good filtration, then you can get away with doing water changes/gravel vacs up to 2 times a week, but don't make it a habit. I used an Eheim Pro II 2128 (rated for 160 gallon tank) on my 55 gallon tank, which had 5 clown loaches, 10 harlequin rasboras, and 2 angels. And at rare times, I could skip up to 2 weeks, but normally do it just once week. Never had any problems with any of them in over 5-7 years.

Since your tank is planted, it will help absorb some of the heavy metals, nitrates, ammonia, etc. but not allot.

Regarding sand, since loaches like to dig at times, I would have to assume, if there is dirt on top of the sand, their digging would push the dirt into or down to the bottom of the sand.

[Guja]

It would be great if someone could tell me the names of all Botia's that are 6inches or smaller. Or better, give me some links with Botia info (with pictures, and basic description - size, aggression, compatibility ( ) with oter Botias ect...)

Thanks, GuJa

[Graeme Robson]

Have you looked in here> http://www.loaches.com/species_index.html Although it's a bit out-of-date, you can still get the general idea.

You could also Google some of the following Loaches below. This is the new Botiine Taxonomy.


Syncrossus
S. Beauforti. S. Berdmorei. S. Helodes. S. Reversa. S. Hymenophysa.

Yasuhikotakia
Y. Eos. Y. Caudopunctata. Y. Modesta. Y. Lecontei. Y. Longidorsalis. Y. Morleti.
Y. Nigrolineata. Y. Splendida. Y. Sidthimunki.

Botia
B. Birdi. B. Dario. B. Histrionica. B. Macrolineata. B. Striata. B. Kubotai. B. Almorhae.

Leptobotia
L. Curta. L. Flavolineata. L. Guilinensis. L. Elongata. L. Hengyangensis.
L. Orientalis. L. Rubrilabris. L. Taeniops. L. Zebra. L. Tchangi. L. Pellegrini.
L. Posterodorsalis. L. Tientainensis.

Parabotia
P. Dubia. P. Fasciata. P. Maculosa.

Sinibotia
S. Superciliaris. S. Pulchra. S. Longiventralis. S. Robusta. S. Reevesae.

Chromobotia
C. Macracanthus.

[Guja]

Thanks!
I looked at loaches.com, but I can' find maximum size for the most of them. www.google.com here we go!

[Graeme Robson]

You could also ask here once your lfs has some particular specimens in stock.

I could answer your Q and so can many others but i dont get paid for 'donkey' work.

[helen nightingale]

sidthimunkis are quite small and very sweet looking fish. i havent kept them, so i cant tell you much else, but they'd be worth looking into more.

one of my yoyos is maybe 4" and still seems to be growing. i have been told they can get to 8", despite what the books can say. they can be quite lively. so if you decide you like them please get lots of them! i got this wrong and only got 1, and he caused lots of trouble. lots of shops will say that 1 is fine as they hear they can be a bit agressive. please ignore this if anyone says this to you!

try having a look at this site

http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/li ... category=1

here's a site with loach picturres

http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/karp3.htm

i cant remeber what the loach pictures on here are like - but i remeber there are some beautiful photos

http://www.photomax-library.org.uk/index.php?pg=4

i hope you get on well with choosing fish. and also that you get on well with your studies. you are lucky that you can have an aquarium and be a student - i have to wait till i graduated. enjoy student life!