Help! Sick Clown Loach?

[skbgal83]

HI, I recently bought 4 clown loach for my 26 gallon tank. The clown loach are the only ones in there because the day I bought them, approximately 24 hours after they had ick, and I didn’t want to further stress them by adding more fish (I was thinking guppies). I have tried treating the ick with quick cure. I did the half required dosage for three days, and it seemed to be working, but it has gotten worst. So I did a 25% water change and added some Water Safe complete water conditioner plus beneficial bacteria, to help reduce stress etc. From since the appearance of the ick I slowly elevated the heater to 84 degrees, where it is steadily maintained by a All glass aquarium heater. I have done several testing now and everything appears fine with the water. The ph is 7.2, and there is no harmful nitrate or alkalinity. However, now my loach appear to be worst. They are now swimming furiously up and down. They haven't slept last night. They are normally at the bottom of the tank in a corner all cuddled up together, but now they are right at the top of the tank. All four of them together. They have been there all night. They won't go down to the bottom. Could they be gasping for air? But why, everything is fine with the water. What should I do? I am very worried about them. Between the ick and this, I don’t know if they will make it.

[TammyLiz]

Are you a troll trying to make trouble or is this a real setup? I noticed the post earlier today and hoped someone else would answer it. I'll go ahead and address your issues for you just in case you're for real and actually want to do what is best for your fish.

If you read around this forum a little you'll quickly discover that clowns are not to be kept in a 26 gallon tank.

Why on earth would you want to put guppies in with a fish that grows to 12 inches?

When treating for ich you have to dose for two weeks. Don't believe the bottle if it says it works in less that time.


Is your tank cycled? Have you tested for ammonia and/or nitrite? Bad waster quality causes all sorts of issues. If you don't know what cycling is you can look it up on the web.

If they are gasping at the surface they are having trouble breathing. The combination of the medication and elevated temperature makes it difficult for them to get enough oxygen. Either lower the water level so your filter causes splashing, or add an air stone to create more surface agitation.

And you're right. They are in a bad situation and may not make it. You should consider rehoming them if that tank is the best you can give them. I personally do not keep clown loaches because I do not own a tank large enough to house them.

[skbgal83]

Wow, i didn't know that they grew to 12 inches. I am not a troll, in fact i am just a 23 year old wife and mother who loves taking care of various pets! So you didn't have to be so mean about it really. The little pet shop i bought these fish at had that they grew to 3 inches. Which is the size that they are right now. I have kept various types of fresh water fish before and none of them grew to over 3 inches also, so i never thought that these would be different.

I have already lost one clown loach tonight, and now the others have gone back down to the bottom, but are sort of panting real hard. I don't have a extra air stone right now, so i will try to lower the water level and see if that helps, because as i said earlier, the water if fine. I tested for nitrite and ammonia and the tank doesn't have any.

I do have a friend that has a 50 gallon tank, so if i can hep these loaches suvive this ordeal, then maybe i can give them to him, since my tank won't accomodate their size.

Should i wait until this panting issue is resolved to treat them with the ick medication again. Or should i go ahead and treat them now?

[mikev]

Hi, skbgal83:

Lowering water level to provide more oxygen is a very good idea. Make sure that the water surface is moving, this usually works better than an extra airstone. But still, get an extra airstone tomorrow and plug it in. If you have a powerhead, plug it in too, the more oxygen the better.

Now, it is hard to guess exactly what is going on. One of the problems with Ich is that often it attacks the gills, and in this way the fish does not get enough air. The other problem is that when you raise the temperature, you also decrease the amount of oxygen in the water. Put these two together and it is easy to suffocate the fish.

You certainly cannot stop treatment for ich, otherwise things will get worse. But -- and this is a tough call -- if you see that your fish cannot handle the current situation, you may want to consider lowering the temperature a bit, until the fish feels better. 82F? 80F?

In a situation like yours it is hard to guess the right approach without seeing the fish (and often even when seeing the fish).


Two questions which may help a bit in mapping the best strategy:
1. What is the exact ich situation now?
2. What is your water hardness?

Good Luck!

And don't worry about rehoming just yet. Right now, try to save them, so they have a chance to grow.

[skbgal83]

Hey, thanks mikev. I finished lowering the water levels. The loach are still swimming to the bottom of the tank. However, they are not paired anymore. I don't know if it is because they just lost a loach buddy less than 3 hours ago, but they are not swimming with each other which is very unusual, since they were basically glued to each other before. Even when they were at the top of the tank they were glued to each other.

The ph is still at 7.2, and the water hardness is at 8.4dgh, and I started lowering the temperature. It is currently at 83.4f, I am trying to steadily lower it to 82 degrees so they can have less trouble breathing.

I am not positive, but since the ick infection only began on October 15th, which is 5 days ago, I am assuming that it is still currently in the trophont stage. I don't see any free swimmers or anything. They have white spots everywhere. The face the tail and on the entire body. And they are constantly trying to scratch their skin against the gravel.

I have never had this much panic with fish before. I couldn't sleep last night before I was frightened when I saw them to the top of the tank and I can see this will be a next night with out sleep.

[shari2]

4 clowns that are 3" will be ok (for now) in your tank. Treat for the ick. Google Ick, or Ich+treatment and you'll find lots of information. Or look at the sticky on 'dealing with ick' at the top of the main forum page here.

They need more oxygen in the water. They need to get rid of the parasite. THEN you can figure out what would be the best thing for the fish and for you. One of the biggest issues I have with pet stores that sell fish is the sometimes REALLY BAD information they give to people. No, clowns are not 3" fish for long. They need high oxygen, and good water, and water movement. They like to be kept in groups and are very social fish. They are not scavengers even though they are 'bottom feeders'. They will eat from anywhere they find food.

The fact that they are moving about is good news. For them to be sitting huddled up in a corner all the time was not good. Gasping at the surface is not good. Clowns are curious, investigative, interactive fish, with 'personality'. Well cared for they can live a very long time and get 12" and more in aquaria that are well maintained. (and no, I wouldn't get guppies to go with them. )

Tammy didn't mean to sound harsh, I'm sure. And this is most likely the best place you can come for advice on treating sick loaches. It's just a d*amn shame that you ended up here because of bad advice and information given you by the pet store that sold you the fish in the first place.

[mikev]

Hey, thanks mikev. I finished lowering the water levels.

Just to make sure: you lowered the water level so that water splashes from your HOB filter? -- because this is the primary idea. If not, find some other way for water surface to move. Maybe even a fan, just keep an eye on the temp.

If you can stay up, see how they do at 82F for an hour. Problem with lowering the temp further is that you make your med less efficient (but you do give a break to the fish). A tough tradeoff...

8.4 hardness is not too bad.

If they are covered with Ich, then they also have a lot in the gills, and this is the main problem.

OK, here is the bad choice you may have to make: if it appears that you are losing them, there is one thing you can still do: a salt bath. You can actually kill the parasite that is attached to the fish by osmotic pressure. And yes, you do hurt the fish too in the process.

What you do is this: put salt (aquarium salt, NaCl, not table salt) into a bucket of tank water. Put fish there for about half hour. This will kill some of the parasite on the fish itself. If you have an airstone, put it into the bucket too.

Do this only if things look really bad.

Good luck.

[TammyLiz]

skbgal83,

I'm so sorry I came across like I did. I actually considered not answering the post at all because it sounded so much like what a troll would say, and is probably the reason your post went unanswered all day.

I completely understand where you're coming from, though, and that you were mislead. I am a mother as well, and at 25 years old, very close to your age. Hi. The pet store nearest to my house gives terrible advice, to the point that I can't even stand to go in there anymore because it pains me to hear them misleading people so badly. Its not the customer's fault--they are just trusting the people there who they assume are experts. Like Shari said, its a shame.

I'll be watching to see how your loaches do. I hope they pull through.

[shari2]

I wouldn't assume that you caught the ick right away when you saw the spots. Ick can manifest in the gills first, before you ever see a spot. The fact they they are so heavily covered in spots already leads me to believe that the parasite has been multiplying rapidly. when you raised the temp, you shortened the life cycle and they mulitiplied more rapidly. This is not a bad thing if you are treating with meds, and have adequate oxygenation, however, you need to be prepared for it, or it will take over. And--you won't ever see any free swimmers, they are microscopic.

I would not use a salt bath myself, though as you will find in most things fish, people all have differing opinions on what to do with a sick fish. A seriously sick fish will likely not survive it, imo.

Swimming is good. Keep up the treatment. Do a really good gravel vac, it sucks out alot of the tomonts before they can hatch out into the water column and get back on your fish. Add back clean, declorinated water, with the appropriate amount of med in it. many people will dose in two parts with loaches--half in the am, and half in the pm. Less toxic to the fish, but maintains the necessary level to kill off the parasite.

I hope they make it. sounds like they've got a bad case. you are doing the best you can. Don't forget that you need to breathe too.

[skbgal83]

Hi, everyone. Thanks for all of the help. Unfortunately nothing I did worked. I lowered the water level. I got filter water splashing, and they did lessen their panting. I also vacuum the gravel. I didn't try the salt bath though, because they didn't look like they could handle any more stress.

Around 4am, they all lay in their own corners dead. I am sad but I tried, thanks to all of you. I really needed the advice.

I see that clown loach usually cost $8-$13 dollars. However I got mines for $1.99, and now I’m wondering if that store sold me fish that they knew were already sick. They were the only 4 loach in the store. I've never had fish that lasted a week before.

Tammyliz, it's ok. I was just very stress, I’m sorry also. I hate anything that has to suffer, and I knew they were suffering, I just didn't know why. I don’t know what I would ever do if something happened to our bearded dragon lizard (knock on wood), my son loves it.

[TammyLiz]

I'm sorry. It sounds like you did what you could.

If you think about getting any more loaches don't be a stranger here. There are a few that would do OK in a 26 gallon.

[mikev]

Hi, everyone. Thanks for all of the help. Unfortunately nothing I did worked.

Hi, Skbglal83,

Very sorry to hear about this. Perhaps it would make you feel better to know that it is quite unlikely anyone else could have saved the fish with ich already so advanced. In early stages, yes, but with lots of parasites attached to the body, it is hard.

On the salt bath, for future reference.

I was in situations that required it twice. The first time, I went for it, and it did what it was supposed to do. Some died, most made it. The second time, the disease was already so advanced and the fish was already dying, so, like you, I did not dare and went with conventional treatment. Lost all.

I see that clown loach usually cost $8-$13 dollars. However I got mines for $1.99, and now I’m wondering if that store sold me fish that they knew were already sick. They were the only 4 loach in the store. I've never had fish that lasted a week before.

Ich and Clowns *often* come together. If you decide to keep clowns again, prepare to battle ich. There are very few stores in the world where you can be reasonably sure that the fish is disease-free.

The good news is that in most cases Ich can be handled...before it gets to the massive infection stage. If you decide to have clowns again (and do make sure you can have a large tank first), the next time you'll beat the problems.

Good luck!