Alright, back on my feet! Would someone offer their advice?

[shazam26]

So, I've currently purchased my 20 gallon tank, after the slight disaster with my faulty one. -_- This one was sold to me on a bargain due to that circumstance. (No kidding... but a free tank isn't going to bring my fishes back! )
Still, as discouraging as that whole ordeal was, I shall try once again.
I'm going to take about a month out to set up this new tank- can anyone offer up any links, so that I may properly cycle my tank?
(The reason I am going with a 20 gallon is due to the size restriction on tanks at my residence.)
For right now, I am using my old tank (Not the broken one obviously, this is one my mother previously owned- it's a couple years old. She has checked it, and shipped it out until my new 20 is properly set up.)
This one was for smaller fish, it is only a 10. It was in use about a week ago tops, it was simply a case of transfer and deliver.
The tank has all new water, and it has been running for a few days now.
The only thing that pet suppliers ever have to offer in terms of controlling ammonia and setting up a new or previously emptied tank is cycle, or various water conditioners.
I'm nervous that this will not be enough to ensure the safety of the fish.
I have done this before, and when I took my water in to be tested, both times it has turned up fine.
Are there any loaches that could suitably live in a 15 for a month, or should I just invest in small fish? I adore loaches very much and their unique personalities- hence my determination to own them- but if there are none that would suit the tank, I will go without until then. I know kuhli's should be fine in the 20, but is putting them in a 15 for a month pushing it?
Thanks everyone,
-Michelle ^_^

[mikev]

HI, Shazam26,

It may be a good idea to read about fishless cycling, for example, here. The article I linked explains the general idea, but there is an extra trick: if you start your new tank with good materials, the tank can be fully cycled in only a couple of days. A fully cycled tank can accept a heavy load of fish without any ammonia/nitrite spikes.

For example, I may need a new 10g Q-tank on the weekend. I'm considering setting it up on Thursday, and seeding the cycle with media from a store system, the tank is likely to be ready in 48-72 hours (I did this before a couple of times). Large amount of sand or gravel from an established tank will assure quick cycling too.

One warning:

I have done this before, and when I took my water in to be tested, both times it has turned up fine.

If you are serious about fish, do you own tests.
And "fine" (0-ammonia,0-nitrites) on an empty tank may mean two very different situations: your tank is cycled (great) or your tank is totally uncycled (disaster). The way you know which is by adding a little ammonia yourself and seeing that it disappears in a few hours.

As for kuhlis in 15g : no problem. I kept three in a 10g for a few months, and they were quite happy there....in fact, much happier than in a large tank with large tankmates. Just make the tank comfortable: sand, some shelter, and -- optionally -- some plants.

In fact, your limitation is not the 15g tank at all: you can even keep small clowns there for a month -- but your 20g final tank. Any fish that can be kept long-term in a 20g can be kept for one month in 15g.

hth

[shari2]

Many fishkeepers have what is called a Quarantine tank (Q tank). It's a small tank which new fish that you have just brought home go into for observation and treatment BEFORE you add them to an established tank. The reason for it is that many times new fish from a store will be carrying nasties that you don't want to introduce to your larger tank. Things like ick, internal parasites, or they may just be underweight and very stressed and in need of intensive feeding up etc.

I usually qtank for about a month anyway. If a fish has internal parasites it will not gain weight even though it's feeding well. If ick is present in the gills, by that time it most likely will show up as spots on the fish. Other things that may not show up at the store can manifest over the course of a month's time in your qtank. If they do, it is much less expensive to treat a smaller volume of water than a large one. It is also easier to do frequent small water changes on a small tank.

Some fishkeepers keep one running all the time for those extra special finds that you discover when stopping in a store for food, or water conditioner, etc. Of course, this is one of the ways you can end up with multiple tanks. The qtank becomes a home, and aquires its own fish, then you have to set up another one when new fish come home...it can be a very addictive hobby. Others take them down after the new fish go into the big tank. When it is needed again, a bit of filter media and substrate from the established tank can be used to set it up again in no time into a fully cycled tank suitable for a few fish. Since you never want to add too many fish at once anyway (overloads the biofilter) it works well.

All this to say that yes, a 10g (the common qtank for average sized fish) is ok for a month or so, as long as it is cycled first either with seeded material from an established tank, or via fishless cycling as mikev linked for you.

For bottom dwelling fish the footprint of the tank is more important than depth. Is your 20 a 20 Long, or a tall 20? That will also be a determining factor in what fish it would be most suitable to house.

[shazam26]

Well, that's good news to me:)
All of my plants (except one new plant)/sediments/hiding spots came from an in use tank, which was used by loaches. But I did rinse them for waste like food and excretion. The rocks I usually use a strainer on to get out the organic debris.
I have established a previously used filter, the cartrige has not been changed, it was running for perhaps two weeks.
I understand the used filter is key to the speed of the bacteria developing?
As well as high temperatures and plenty of oxygen?
I just hope I never ruined the effect of having the plants & gravel there by rinsing it.

[adampetherick]

Well, that's good news to me:)

I have established a previously used filter, the cartrige has not been changed, it was running for perhaps two weeks.

The filter needs to have been in constant use, if it has been out of water for over 30 mins the bacteria will have died off.

[shari2]

If you rinsed the plants and rocks in tap water I'd go on the assumption that you have lost the beneficial bacteria.

Also, 2 weeks is not a long time and likely will not suffice to colonize another tank...

[shazam26]

Ahhh, that's too bad.
I've now placed in rocks that were in use without rinsing, and my betta fish Moole.
(It must be nice for a fish usually kept in small tanks to get a big tank all to themselves for a while!) I bought it today, it was in the crammed display case for a while. -_- It never seemed sick to me, it just bothered me and, like every betta fish, wasn't very active. Moole is shockingly active and explorative now, though! Amazing what a little space can do for some fish. It seems to really enjoy the bubbles, keeps swimming in and out of them.
Anyway, is it a good idea to have the fish in there, or will having a fish like a betta in the tank before the other fish get there be bad news?
I'm not sure. :S I heard that having fish in there first is a good idea, so I'll wait on the loaches. Purchase them after I get a couple fish in there for a while. How would a betta react to ammonia?

[shari2]

ammonia is a poison and any fish will react the same way.

# Symptoms: Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
# Purple or red gills
# Fish is lethargic
# Loss of appetite
# Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
# Red streaking on the fins or body

It will burn their gills and is irreversible once the damage is done. To use your betta to cycle the tank is likely not the best choice. Hardier fish are more likely to survive. In any case, if you are using a fish to cycle your tank, (Many people do, and others will go the fishless cycle route) you will need test kits because the ammonia WILL spike at one point and you need to know when. After the ammonia spike will come the NitrIte spike. When your test kits begin to show NitrAte your cycle is nearing completion.

You will see the effects on your fish. He is happy right now, but when you see rapid breathing (faster than normal gill action) you know it's starting to build up. You should test the water frequently in hopes of minimizing stress on the fish and do small water changes. You may need to do many, but keep them small or you will remove too much ammonia which is the food for the bacteria and will negate the effect of the bacterial buildup that you need to complete your cycle. It is a delicate balancing act and will be hard on your fish unless you stay on top of it.

Read any article on the Nitrogen Cycle to get up to speed on what to expect. Make sure you have adequate aeration in your tank. Get an airstone, or let the return flow from your tank splash heavily into the surface. Surface agitation promotes oxygen exchange.

Remember that one fish will only provide enough waste to create a biofilter to support one fish. AFTER your ammonia and nitrItes show ZERO you can begin to add other small, hardy fish. Only a few at a time, and not loaches for at least 2-3 months, possibly a bit longer. Good luck and keep us posted.


.....................edit.....................
other things you can do to limit damage:
feed lightly
try to keep the pH below 7.0 as its less toxic at lower pH
use your pH tester when you test for ammonia/nitrItes

[shazam26]

Thank you all very much for your very informative responses, they've been a great deal of help!
I am going to keep a very close eye on my betta, and will purchase a test kit tomorrow at the pet store. I will also look into small fish to go into it as well.
By the way, if you guys don't mind- I have a smaller tank for my betta, but I feel guilty now that it's been enjoying the space of the larger tank.
Are they compatible with loaches and most importantly, rainbow sharks? (Because both can be quite aggressive...my rainbows love the loaches, but I don't know how either would get along with my betta!) If there is no compatability, I'll have to put him back into his smaller encasement! Though hey, 5 gallons isn't that bad for a betta, eh?

P.S: Sorry for all of these questions, I just want to know all the facts beforehand, not have to act them out foolishly and have to find out the hard way. -_- It's been very long since I last cared for fish, and I'm taking on more complex creatures that require much more delicate procedures. Anyway, Thanks everyone!

[angelfish83]

Its hard to say if bettas go with loaches without knowing which ones- but as far as rainbow sharks, no. Even if the shark didn't nail the betta, it would frighten it quite a lot, and any loach needs much more current than any betta would want to live in. So no way should you put them together.

You can put a betta in a five gallon tank with a decent filter and heater and a couple of rocks and a plant and it'll be happy. I don't condone keeping them in bowls but they aren't very demanding. If you do mix in other fish, try to make it something that isn't going to buzz around the betta much. For the most part, they really don't like being around other fish much. Also the betta is very likely to try to bite pretty much anything... guppies, platys, swordtails, small tetras... If its a small tank there really isn't a whole lot you can do... They bite snail's feelers too... There are bizzarre exceptions. I had a female betta long ago who fell in love with a ram and followed it around but that was just a strange fish...

Also Rainbow Sharks get quite large, like into your hundreds of gallons kinda thing large when full grown.

[shazam26]

Ahhh, looks like ol' Moole is going back to her fiver then!
As for loaches, I noticed how much they loved to jump and swim at the current- the betta seems to enjoy it as well, but can't quite keep up with its speed & force! As for the rainbow sharks, I was aware of how large it got to be, eventually I just know I'm going to end up with a massive tank in the end of things anyway. Especially if I plan on trying any other species of loach in the future, like the zipper. I'd love to try clowns, but I'm going to wait until I've had more experience in dealing with fish and done much more research before I try to attempt caring for some that require the littlest details- judging by a lot of posts they seem like very sensitive fishies. Well as a matter of fact, Kuhli's seem that way as well, but I've gotten much more research in on them.
But yes, thank you kindly for your response!