HELP!!!! New loach sickly!

[Calypso mermaid]

Hi,
I'm new to loaches as I bought one on advice for snail removal for my goldfish tank and then after doing research found out how social they were. My 4-5 year old goldfish had long outgrown their 30 gallon tank and so I created a little "pond" under our skylight and turned the 30 gallon into a loach tank. We are eventually moving, so the loaches are eventually moving into a larger tank and right now they are all very small. Anyway, I had 3 loaches in a 30 gallon tank and yesterday visited a fish store in Park Ridge a suburb of Chicago in an effort to get some driftwood and a few "dither?" fishes or fishes that would make the tank more of a "natural environment."
I was okay bringing home a tiny little loach, assuming this store had a good reputation and he would be healthy, just small. When I let him out of the bag I was surprised at how skinny he was, having dents behind his eye, the spin of his back protruding. I also noticed my clowns didn't want anything to do with him, indicating to me, that maybe they can tell he's sick. He's very weak and almost appears to "pass out," although trying to appear normal when I tried to net him. I read some stuff about parasites and was concerned he had "knifeback," and so called the store and asked about what medications they pretreat their fish with and was given the snotty answer of only "aquarisol," because they [i]never[/i] have any problems with their fish, they are[i] [i]always healthy[/i[/i]]. This store also almost triple charged me for a piece of driftwood, forgot to charge me for the the loach and went so far to tell me that my loaches were probably killing the new loach with bullying and he wasn't eating because I wasn't feeding the algea disks "they only eat. "
After talking to these jerks, it became apparent to me, they only care about making a buck and don't care if they sold a fish that might infect my whole tank......what do I do? What do I watch for? Is it possible this guy is just starved and stressed? How can I take preventive measures to make sure my tank doesn't become infected with a parasite that might kill everyone else without over medicating? Can someone help me please? Ideally, I'd like to save this little guy too, if possible?

[shari2]

Here's a link to a thread with some pictures of fish that sound similar to what you are describing.

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

If you use the 'search' function on the top of the forum and type in 'skinny disease' or 'levamisole' you'll find lots of info on this issue and what people use to treat it.

Can you possibly post a picture of your fish? It would certainly help.

[Calypso mermaid]

Thank you so much for responding! Yes! The first picture is very close to what he looks like.....I'm just trying to see how far the indentation goes back because I can see it on his head, but not sure if it goes further back. He looks like his head is too big for his body. He's a very tiny loach, only approx an 1" long.
Here's a question though, I googled "Aquarisol," and found the active ingredient was "copper sulfate." Isn't copper harmful to clown loaches? Would this have eliminated any parasites and could he just be stressed from the poisonous medication and the store? At what point do I determine what the definite cause of his skinny appearance is since he's new to the tank?
Do I want to just go ahead and track down Levamisole and treat my tank? I am hesitant to figure out dosages without an over the counter medication, it kinda scares me......since it's a general dewormer, is it something I could find on Dr. Foster and Smith under dogs or cats? Will it hurt the other fish species in the tank; 2 rainbow fish and my teeny, tiny pleco?
One of the other loaches seems to have befriended him and keeps coming by to check on him or lean up against him......are we absolutely sure this can't be transmitted to other loaches.....I read on that link you gave me that it can be caused by tapeworms that need an intermediate host......how do I know if this is the case for sure?
I can get a picture, but you might have to wait until I can get a good one in better light, it's dark right now and the tank is covered in a lot of algea (which they seem to like,) so I don't think I can get one.
Last, I think until I can figure out what to do and how to medicate him properly, if I can make sure he's eating it would benefit his recovery, where do people find these feeder snails or clams? Is he too small to eat clams? The loaches love those tiny snails you find on plants, but can you buy those to feed them?
Again, thanks so much for the help!!!!! I'm really annoyed with this suburban fish store......they make Petsmart and Petco look downright ethical!

[shari2]

Do I want to just go ahead and track down Levamisole and treat my tank? I am hesitant to figure out dosages without an over the counter medication, it kinda scares me......since it's a general dewormer, is it something I could find on Dr. Foster and Smith under dogs or cats? Will it hurt the other fish species in the tank; 2 rainbow fish and my teeny, tiny pleco?
One of the other loaches seems to have befriended him and keeps coming by to check on him or lean up against him......are we absolutely sure this can't be transmitted to other loaches.....I read on that link you gave me that it can be caused by tapeworms that need an intermediate host......how do I know if this is the case for sure?
I can get a picture, but you might have to wait until I can get a good one in better light, it's dark right now and the tank is covered in a lot of algea (which they seem to like,) so I don't think I can get one.
Last, I think until I can figure out what to do and how to medicate him properly, if I can make sure he's eating it would benefit his recovery, where do people find these feeder snails or clams? Is he too small to eat clams? The loaches love those tiny snails you find on plants, but can you buy those to feed them?

Tons of questions!

No, you likely won't get levamisole at Dr.s foster smith

Levamisole won't hurt your other fish and there is a link to a dosage calculator created by chefkeith in that thread (or one of them...I'll help you find it if you get levamisole)

It's hard to really know what causes it. Sometimes it's parasites, sometimes bacterial, sometimes both. Without a microscope you probably will never know...

I've seen healthy clowns trying to 'encourage' sick ones before. They are very social fish and though sometimes they will shun a sick fish, with skinny clowns they will often lay nearby, or even nudge them to make sure they are ok.

Pond snails are good loach food, but if he isn't eating now, he may not show any interest in them either. You could also try frozen bloodwoms. Most clowns will go for those.

Meanwhile, try to order some levamisole, and see if you can get us a pic.

[Calypso mermaid]

Okay, let me just say again, I'm new to keeping loaches, but upon closer inspection, (due to my sick loach floating by my face,) he looks a heck of a lot sicker and thinner than I thought he originally was. Please don't hold it against me, but I was lost in the thread from the link, how do I order the Levamisole? I got lost in all the posts and info. I hope he makes it until I can medicate him.......he's looking arched and sicker than I thought........he was hiding before and now I can see him clearly.....I sure hope he holds on!! poor soul.

[cybermeez]

When I have loaches that come in with chronic wasting, I start them first on 5-10 days of Maracyn and Maracyn 2 and then do the Levamisole or some other sort of de-worming med. If they are really sich and I have both meds I dose them at the same time. All cases of skinny disease I've ever encountered have been cleared by the Maracyns and Levamisole combo.

[shari2]

Since his situation sounds really serious, I'd go with Cybermeeze's suggestion. Most local fish shops will stock it and you can get it quickly and start treatment. The levamisole you will have to order and it sounds like it really can't wait.

Start the Maracyn combo. Get online and order some levamisole if you plan on getting more clowns, or if you purchase live caught fish. See how he does over the next day or so. We'll get into details if he makes it.

Best of luck to you and sorry your first experience here at lol was not a happy one thus far. But welcome, anyway.

[Hell Fire]

Mine had skinny desiese and i used this stuff called Flubenol off ebay, Paul Fox off a fish forum gave me some for free to prove it worked. Mine was also like it when i got him and this stuff really worked fast1 hes now caught up in size and fattness with the others and is loving life!!

[bevans]

The levamisole you will have to order and it sounds like it really can't wait.

Question here, Shari-I have sheep and sheep wormer boluses for them (Levamisole hydrochloride). Is this what you are talking about? I'm assuming you're all probably using the liquid form or would this dry form do? Because if you can use the dry form, then Calypso might be able to find it locally at a farm supply store-though it may cost more than she likes. My package of 24 0.184 gram boluses is about $15.00. Of course that amount treats about 1200 lbs. of sheep, which translates into a whole bunch of loaches... The liquid is usually for a drench gun, so it comes in quart or half gallon size bottles and is really expensive, because it's for treating big flocks or herds.

[shari2]

the bolus form contains additives used to get it in pill form that would make treating a tank with it very messy and possibly dangerous to fish.

I usually Order Levamisole Soluble Pig Wormer, the bottle that comes with a small pile of powder in the bottom to which you add water. It's only $14.50 for a bottle which will treat a whole lot of fish. Basically, it will last a year unless you've got LOTS of gallons to treat.

Shake it up, use the Dosage Wizard, and treat. Generally, I only add water to a small amount of powder (which I measure out by eyeball, and label) at a time since the powder will store for a year or so, but the mixed liquid is only good for 90 days.

[cybermeez]

the bolus form contains additives used to get it in pill form that would make treating a tank with it very messy and possibly dangerous to fish.

I use the sheep boluses and have had no problems with it. The binders etc. used to get the medication into bolus form are edible and similar to the stuff used to get Maracyn into tablet form. The binders will leave a yellow residue in the tank, but in my experience it's harmless and easily removed after treatment with water changes.

The dosage is 1 and a half boluses for every 10 gallons of water. I use a mortar and pestle to pulverize the boluses into a powder then mix it with about 1 cup of warm, dechlorinated water. Warm water has increased solubility so the stuff mixes better.

To do the actual mixing I use a small jar with a tight fitting lid and shake the water and powdered levamisole vigorusly for about 30 seconds and then add the mixture directly to the tank.

In fact, right now I'm using it and the Maracyns concurrently to treat some Horseface loaches and a little, tiny Clown who has a pretty bad case of skinny disease.

Robin

[shari2]

That's good to know Robin, Thanks!

[bevans]

Robin wrote:

I use the sheep boluses and have had no problems with it. The binders etc. used to get the medication into bolus form are edible and similar to the stuff used to get Maracyn into tablet form. The binders will leave a yellow residue in the tank, but in my experience it's harmless and easily removed after treatment with water changes.

Thanks, Robin! That is good to know! Apparently levamasole is very versatile!

Brenda