worms in filter

[NancyD]

I found 2 live worms in my HOB filter after using levamisole--yuck. One was red, 1 tan appx 1/8-1/4 inch long. Cammalanus? no segmentations I could see so not tapeworms.

A week ago I treated my clown loach & plec tank with levamisole mostly because I had it mixed for another tank. My newish scribble plec had not be levamisoled but was quarantined for 8 weeks. The tank had been treated this summer "just in case" & 1 small clown loach actually lost some weight after that. Not the emaciated CWS, just a little thinner.

After 1 dose we were busy & didn't notice until 5 days later-- Oh My -- he was emaciated in the classic CWS way. I ran out to buy a Q tank & Maracyn I & II, no time for resealing tanks now. Supposedly Maracyns don't kill the "good" bacteria so I was going to take some filter media for the q filter. That's when I found the worms. So now all my tanks are being levamisoled, gravel vac'd etc., Unhappy New Year.

So now I'm wondering all over again about dosing strength & schedule. This summer I did appx 4 ppm, 3 doses 48 hours apart (then 1 a week later as I recall). This time I was going with 2 ppm, 3 doses 5 days apart to try & kill later hatches but the initial dose didn't kill (adults?) so I'm thinking higher & more frequent initial doses.

Help, Shari et al, I need opinions (& sympathy ).

Nancy

[mistergreen]

i found this at the krib for you

http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/nematodes.html

they look nasty..

[NancyD]

Thanks, mistergreen. It was primarily for my new apistos that I was using levamisole this time. I had read they often have worms.

These worms are nasty, the red, more active 1 kept poking at my finger & I didn't want to find if it could attach itself. Creepy.

[shari2]

Hi Nancy,
Sorry to hear about the worm issue. Is there any chance you fed live worms and they could be offshoots from that?

If not, chefkeith did an experiment using levamisole on planaria and found that the 'recommended' dose of 2ppm did not kill them.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?p=22147#22147

When you did your summer treatment were you treating for 'skinny'? or worms in general? Did you treat the fish you are describing here, too?

Dr. Momfish's recommendation is to use a significantly higher dosage level--about 800mg/10gallons to treat chronic wasting disease ('skinny disease'). I've actually used 1000mg/10g with no ill effects. Increasing the dosage may help, but I wouldn't do more frequent dosing than what you described you did in the summer. I don't think it would be necessary or beneficial.

If the worms you are dealing with are cammallanus they are tough to eradicate from an aquarium, and from fish. Levamisole may not be the best treatment for them. However, they have an indirect life cycle and require a copepod or other crustacean to complete their life cycle. Are there snails in your tank? Did you ever see any worms protruding from the anus of your thin fish?

HERE is a page with more than you ever wanted to know about worms... Scroll down to the yellow highlighted section for an image of a cammallanus worm. If you cruise through the paper you may find info that better matches what you are dealing with.

Here is a page with alternative treatments for cammallanus.

You didn't happen to try to take a pic of the beastie did you?

You certainly have my sympathy. Sick fish are distressing, especially when you aren't sure how to help them, or when what you do that you think SHOULD help doesn't seem to.

[NancyD]

Thanks, Shari. I never feed live worms only the occasional snail from plants & I know that can be risky. I recently tried frozen cyclops before reading they can be a vector for parasites. I don't know if they can survive being frozen but could not possibly be the source for this outbreak a few days later.

I found some interesting info--the camallanus larvae can survive free-living for more than 3 weeks according to this 2006 abstract http://www.springerlink.com/content/xm311460pu620403/ No intermediate host required, either direct or indirect is possible. No wonder they are so hard to get rid of!

I also read 2 ppm levamisole is not enough, a minimum of 5 ppm is needed. (anecdotal from a forum. I thought I saved it but can't find it now)A guppy forum suggests levamisole every 3 days for 9 days. I think I'll go with similar treatment but haven't decided, maybe once a week x 3 to get the larvae. I had read DrMomfish's article & searched the archives last year before deciding on a dosage. I like the wide margin of safety with levamisole & already had some but I'll keep reading. Thanks for the links.

The treatment I did this summer was prophylactic (I thought). I haven't seen any worms hanging from the loaches or barbs but the scribble plec I rarely see & never his underside. He is the likely source but didn't look thin (or bloated) when I added him ~8 weeks ago. I'm sure I'd have thought any red worms in the filter were uneaten bloodworms if I noticed. I had a couple tiger barbs die from unknown causes but can't remember exactly when. My husband disposed of them before I was up so no chance of any crude exam.
Sorry, no pics. Maybe that should be a new year resolution, learn to use old digital camera.

Nancy