Question about victoria green..

[poeticpyro]

Okay, so i read the ich sticky, and frankly i was pretty upset. this forum has told me many times to use salt, then the sticky says not to... so confusing...

anyway... I am using victoria green to treat it and i'm wondering how cancerous is it to humans? is it cancerous by touch or do you physically have to ingest it? because now i'm freaking out... lol...

[hemi]

i think thats one of those

you have to be in california ones

like its know in the state of cali to cause cancer


so i dunno how you get the cancer but im sure cali has something to do with it

[shari2]

Salt IS a viable alternative for treating ick in freshwater fishes.
However, loaches especially (and that's what we're talkin here mostly ) do not tolerate salt well.

using enough salt to eradicate the ick would be dangerous for many loaches.
Sorry for the confusion.

[poeticpyro]

Shari-

i have used salt many times and it is simply amazing... it doesn't take multiple applications etc. you just do about 1/2 dose... i was TOLD on THIS forum all about ich and how to use salt and only salt... so... that's why i'm really confused and a little upset...

if i can find the thread i'll link it or something...

[shari2]

Please do, that would be helpful. Hate to create confusion like that.

But do remember, each fishkeeper tends to be a unique individual.
Everyone has their own tried and true methods, and we don't always agree. Not to mention the fact that what works really well in your tank may not in mine for a whole host of reasons.
We are always learning, trying new things, changing things up when things go wrong...

[mikev]

i have used salt many times and it is simply amazing... it doesn't take multiple applications etc. you just do about 1/2 dose... i was TOLD on THIS forum all about ich and how to use salt and only salt... so... that's why i'm really confused and a little upset...

It is not all black and white, really.

Salt is a very powerful medications, and in some cases it is the only game in town (I've been in such situations several times now, and not just with ich). However, it is not the only medication around. It is also not the best single medication in most cases, especially with loaches involved.

As it happens, Victoria Green aka Malachite Green, seems overall to be the best med against Ich. It does not seem to cause cancer in fish, and it does not stress fish as much as salt does.

However, even Malachite Green works better in presence of a 2nd med, and quite often this second med is -- you guessed it -- Salt. Many off-the-shelf anti-ich meds combine the Green with Salt, and occasionally with something else. In such meds (Nox, IchGuard) the dosage of Salt is lower than in a pure-Salt treatment so they are safer for the fish.

As for Malachite Green causing cancer, the definite verdict is not available. It is quite possible that there are real cancer risks if one eats fish that has been exposed to Malachite Green. Here is a typical story -- observe that M.Green is suspected, but not proven to be linked to cancer.

In all cases, when dealing with chemicals, make sure that they don't get into your food, and wash your hands carefully.

hth

[poeticpyro]

thanks for the info/help guys... they're not looking too good unfortunately...but we'll see...

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... hlight=ich

shari- above is the link to the thread i started... sorry, not trying to be rude, just confused... and if i am i'm sure i'm not the only one

[shari2]

Thanks for posting the link to that thread. I see what you mean.
What was the end result of that bout of Ich you had in May? did you use salt? Did it work? How did the fish do?

Right. So let's start at the beginning for this time around...
Which tank are you treating, loach 1, loach 2 or another tank?
What size is the tank?
What temp? Ph? ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?
What else in the tank? Plants? Snails? etc?

Can you get a pic and/or describe exactly which fish are showing what signs? Rapid respiration, lethargy, odd behaviors?

Give us everything you've got that you think may be applicable, what you've done so far, and what your plan is to finish treating.

[poeticpyro]

thanks shari, at least now you can understand why i'm so confused... here we go..

Which tank are you treating, loach 1, loach 2 or another tank? LOACH tank 2

What size is the tank? 125 gal 6-footer
What temp? 86 at the moment, usually kept at 82
Ph? moderate 7.3
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? all very good...haven't tested today and i can't remember but they were all perfectly fine.
What else in the tank? decor for one including terracotta
Plants? fake *fabric* and tons of live
Snails? if they are in there, they're dead... since the loachies love them!
Can you get a pic and/or describe exactly which fish are showing what signs? Rapid respiration, lethargy, odd behaviors?
pic- probably not simply because the digital camera sucks!
symptoms- of course the "white spots", reddish gills and a little bit of a clamped fin in the really badly infected babies... *they're 1"*

Give us everything you've got that you think may be applicable, what you've done so far, and what your plan is to finish treating.

Answer:
I have added salt, simply because that usually works.... it HEALED the larger loaches right up, there's one baby that's still struggling and a couple of barbs. Salt is added according to the other thread. Then I read the sticky because I was mad that the treatment wasn't working... so I added the JUNGLE brand Ick Clear... 1/2 dose. Removed the carbon from both filters, upped temp to 86 from the 84 that it was at *heard you're supposed to gradually increase temp* I also added a ton of aeration. 2 125 gallon air pumps. Tank lights have been kept off, except for today simply because the plants need it. Another dosage of Jungle will be applied tomorrow after about a 20% water change. I will continue re-dosing the tank every two-three days until symptoms clear, then it's a little bit of aloe added to the tank and then the decrease in temperature. I have plecos now *they don't like the salt* but they have been tolerating it and it cleared their problems right up as well! personally I love salt because it's cheaper and usually goes away within a few days to a week and a half.

any other questions and i'll answer asap.

[mistergreen]

wow. a 125 gallon tank.

it might be better to move some of the smaller fish to a smaller tank and treat them there.. you'll spend less on meds that way. Having a sick/hospital tank is always good.

and it's always difficult to try to treat all fish the same and expect them all to have the same result.. In hospital tanks, you can treat each group of fish to their needs.

[shari2]

Treating in a qtank is generally recommended, but with ich, since it is in the tank and all fish are susceptible, at this point removing fish is not the best idea. You need to treat the whole tank anyway...

Which salt dose from the other thread are/were you using?
1 tbsp/gallon or
1 tbsp/10 gallon?

Did the salt treatment work on the larger loaches? They had spots, now they don't?

Did you do a water change before starting the Jungle Clear?

So is the situation now that the larger loaches have cleared up but there's one baby and a couple barbs that still show spots? Are the number of spots increasing on these fish, or staying the same, or diminishing?

Aeration is good, temp is good, carbon is out.

HERE is an excellent article from the Cichlid forum on Ich. It may help you to understand the treatment options, what conditions are best to use with which med, and some other info you should consider while treating. It also addresses the cancerous issue with Malachite green to some extent.

hth, and you can get past this quickly.

shari

[poeticpyro]

good news, almost all spots are gone, but here's the rest of the answers to your questions..
Which salt dose from the other thread are/were you using?
1 tbsp/gallon or
1 tbsp/10 gallon?
1 tbsp/ 5 gallons... semi 1/2 dose

Did the salt treatment work on the larger loaches? They had spots, now they don't? yes the salt worked very well, cleared them up within 1/2 a day *note: they didn't have as many spots.

Did you do a water change before starting the Jungle Clear?
yes and no.. a very small water change of only about 5%

So is the situation now that the larger loaches have cleared up but there's one baby and a couple barbs that still show spots? yes, the two babies *Si and Am are doing much better, spots are drastically reduced! The plecos are also absolutely fine. Today 2 tabs of the Jungle product were used... just to help clear up any ich that might still exist in the tank. No water change was preformed. Ammonia is at 0 and both nitites and nitrates are average.