New clowns for newbie

[MTS]

Hi. I'm afraid I bought before reading up on clown loaches. Trusted the tag and the clerk at Petsmart and brought home a clown loach. Poor thing got stuck in the net at the store and then again when moving it into my 55 gal tank. It became pale and spent its time hiding so to cheer it up, I bought another clown loach which seemed to work for a while. They froliced together for a while but now each loach hides out on opposite sides of the tank and rarely hang together.

I want to get more clown loaches and upgrade in a few years to a larger tank. My questions:
1) How many more clown loaches should I get and how long before I'll need a bigger tank?
2) I started with 10 black neons in the tank and they've surprised me by expanding their number to 12. Will they be ok in the same tank as the loaches?
3) Since loaches are prone to Ick, should I worry about isolating or doing some type of treatment to the new loaches before I add them to the tank?
4) Suggestions on transfering and handling. What is the best way to prevent them from getting tangled in the net? Also, when they are big, how do you handle them?
5) Do I need to be concerned about the size of any new loaches? I noticed some very cute and tiny clown loaches at the LFS but not sure how they would do with the loaches I have.
6) Any other suggestions for the newbie

this tank: 55 gal, emperor 400 filter on one end & powerhead with sponge on other end for current. 80°F, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, near 0 nitrate, 30-40% changes weekly sometimes skipping a week. PH 6.5-7

I thank you in advance for advice.
--MTS

[Mark in Vancouver]

You ought to keep clowns in groups of three or more. There is something about the odd number that keeps their social lives peppy. But you'll also have to contemplate upgrading to a substantially bigger tank.

The other fish should be no problem.

It's incredibly easy to introduce Ich to loaches when you add new fish, and you should do everything you can to prevent it from happening. Treating Ich is much worse than dealing with a quarantine period. You should try to set up a small 10g quarantine tank for any fish that you add to your community tank.

Clowns of various sizes will cope with each other alright, but just remember that they don't stay small.

The only other suggestion is to switch your tank cleaning to 25 - 30% every week. Don't skip weeks. These fish live in rivers, which are constantly refreshed and do not experience the buildup of waste that occurs in a neglected fish tank. They're a lot of work, but they're worth it.

[MTS]

How soon do you think I will need to get a bigger tank? I know clown loaches grow at a faster rate while young but then they slow down. Are we talking months or years before they outgrow the 55 gal?

[brett_fishman]

i believe that clowns grow very quickly to 5"..then slow down..

clowns at 6 or 7" in a 55 would probably be fine...especially with only 12 neons for tankmates..

dont be worried about the neons, even very large clowns wont touch them...

when they reach 7", you will most likely have to upgrade to a 120+ gallon tank (6' long) to meet their active needs...

you could buy 3 more, to bring the total to 5..that sounds fine..until they get bigger of course..

to answer your time question, it would probably take about a year for a 2" clown to reach 6"...am i wrong??


good luck, sound like you are starting off good..

brett.

[MTS]

Thanks for the quick responses. I guess I'll have at least a year before I need the bigger tank. I am a little worried about handling loaches because of their spines. I have a monster sized goldfish that really surprised me with its strength when we had to move it. It thrashed and was very difficult to handle --and it didn't have spines.

Any comments from people that have moved larger sized loaches?

[brett_fishman]

get a net?? for the goldfish i mean..dont use your hands

maybe not with the loaches though..maybe use a container of some sort, i have some rubbermaid food containers..about 10x6" and 5" tall..those kinda things would work excellent..

-brett.

[Mark in Vancouver]

i believe that clowns grow very quickly to 5"..then slow down..

clowns at 6 or 7" in a 55 would probably be fine...especially with only 12 neons for tankmates..

dont be worried about the neons, even very large clowns wont touch them...

when they reach 7", you will most likely have to upgrade to a 120+ gallon tank (6' long) to meet their active needs...

you could buy 3 more, to bring the total to 5..that sounds fine..until they get bigger of course..

to answer your time question, it would probably take about a year for a 2" clown to reach 6"...am i wrong??


good luck, sound like you are starting off good..

brett.

Brett, you've got some of this right, but not all of it. We want to make sure to dispense advice that is accurate.

Small clowns do tend to grow quite quickly to the length of four or five inches. Growth then becomes a little more gradual, but I think it's not in the interest of the fish to contemplate how small a tank they can bear. That's the wrong approach, IMO.

These fish grow to an exceptional size, but only if they are provided with what they need to thrive. Space is part of this equation. A five or six inch clown is not going to do well in a tank smaller than 75-90 gallons with a very large footprint.

Also it may take two years or more to reach six inches depending on food, tank size and other factors. That said, the issue remains that MTS has acquired some fish that are not ideal for the tank in question.

In the mean time, my advice would be to consider whether a large tank (and the associated $$) and the work that is involved in keeping clowns, might outweigh the other option of taking them back to the fish shop and looking for either smaller species or different kind of fish.

A 55 would be great for many of the smaller loaches over the long haul.

[brett_fishman]

ok, so you could probably keep clowns in a 55 until they are around 5" max, then move them to another tank??

but yes, you could get a few zebras or yoyos in a 55
those are the two most popular it seems..

zebra loaches get around 4"
yoyo loaches get around 6"

good luck,
brett.

[MTS]

I'm afraid its too difficult emotionallyl to return the fish. I've become attached and can't imagine returning them to the little overstocked tanks at the pet store. Perhaps my 55 gal isn't the best but its got to be better than where they were. I'm checking out glasscages.com for an acrylic tank and hope i can get the bigger tank by the end of next summer. My husband thinks he can build a stand for it.

As far as quarantine tanks, I have a few questions.
What about cycling for a quarantine tank? Do I need to cycle it first and how do I do this without fish? Also while it seems bad to put the clowns in the 55 gal tank, it seems worse to put them in a 10 gal for a month of quarantine.
Could I just put them in the 10 gal and dose them with meds so their stay is shorter?