Petsmart care sheet on loaches

[shari2]

Take a look at the Petsmart care sheet on loaches.
I see some problems...
Comments? Please try to offer constructive criticisms.
NoClownsInACube is still having dialog with petsmart. They've made positive progress. We need to follow up--respectfully, but honestly.

[BlueFrog]

1. Lumped all together - Golden Dojo (Misgurnus anguillicaudatus), Clown (Botia macracanthus), Skunk (B. morleti), Zebra (B. striata), and Kuhli (Acanthophthalmus kuhlii)
- skunks should not be in this group as they are not 'play friendly with others' kind of fish.

2. Possibly a 'Species Description' instead of 'Traits & behavior'
- if they want to lump all their commonly stocked loaches together into one sheet, maybe a breakdown or a chart for each species characteristics and behaviours (top 4 listed), with a little picture of each
(ie. Non Aggressive = not skunks)

3. Move 'Things to Remember' to the end, before the 'petsmart cares' section

4. Nutrition - no mention of veggies



-- thats all I caught on the cursory once-over.

[mikev]

Major Problems:

1. These fish do best when they are kept in small groups containing 3-6 loaches. -- IMO, 3 is too low for at least the Botia's.

2. Loaches are extremely peaceful -- Skunks too?

3. Water temperature should range between 65-80º F. -- A very misleading advice...

4. Minimum aquarium size for smaller species of loaches is 10 gallons -- none of the species listed is suitable for 10g. Something needs to be said about the clown reqs.

There are also many minor problems..., for instance

5. This means they will eat both plants and tiny, living creatures -- loaches really don't eat plants, even if some occasional damage may occur.

6. Experience level: beginner -- I really don't like this.

7. It needs to be said that loaches need a mature aquarium and soft water.

[mvigor]

It also says (well, implies by multiplication) that you could keep five 10-inch clowns in a 50 gallon tank. Or heck, just start out with ten 5-inch clowns.

As decent as the rest of that article really is (and it is) why did someone there insist on leaving IN a mention of the inch-gallon myth?

[shari2]

Yes, the 1" per gallon 'rule' was addressed previously, apparently they are still propagating it.

10g is too small.
grouping these 4 species all under the broad 'loach' (which they are) umbrella of a single care guide is irresponsible.
skunks are not community fish.
dojos are not tropical fish.
clowns do like their veggies and can wreak havoc on a planted tank.
5+ would be better than 3-6, but not in a 10g!

some other things:

the water requirements for botiine species are movement and oxygen.
khuli's don't really prefer this.

Scientific name for clown loach is wrong.

Loaches do have scales.

Water change recommendation is dismally inadequate.

I wouldn't classify loaches as good 'beginner' fish.

Water temp between 65-80F ? For which? They must expect the sales associate to clarify this.

"This care guide contains general information and helpful tips for the proper care of your pet, but is not comprehensive. Speak with our PetSmart store associates or contact a veterinarian with questions about your pet's health. "

Is this caveat to keep them from being responsible for giving out such generalized info? The problem as I see it is that they have grouped together care for the 4 types of 'loaches' their stores generally carry without considering that, with the exception of the clowns and striata, the fish environment/temperament requirements are incompatible.

for other fish they have care guides for (such as angelfish) they are giving out pretty decent info. But all angelfish do well in similar conditions. Not so with the broad range of 'loaches' they are lumping together.

Has anyone ever seen Petsmart sell hillstreams?

[Martin Thoene]

Though I'm tempted to use the words "Woefully inadequate" I appreciate that these guides are only designed to give basic info. I have changed text and added bits below trying to change as little as possible because I doubt radical changes will be accepted. I've tried to be realistic and fairly well dumb it down. I do not believe one can get too technical.
The major change is to split the species into some sort of logical grouping so that requirements can be generalized for that group rather than the blanket coverage of the original.

..................................................................................

Care Guides home

Loaches
Golden Dojo (Misgurnus anguillicaudatus), Clown (Chromobotia macracanthus), Skunk (Yasuhikotakia morleti), Zebra (Botia striata), and Kuhli (Pangio kuhlii)


Experience level: Medium, for a tropical community

For ages: 8 & up, with adult supervision

Pet size: Kuhli, Skunk, Zebra up to 4"
Golden Dojo up to 10"
Clown up to 12"

Traits & behavior
Things to remember
Nutrition
Health
Environment
PetSmart cares
Supply list

Traits & behavior

Omnivores
This means they will eat both plants and tiny, living creatures.

Communal
These fish do best when they are kept in small groups containing 3-6 loaches.

Bottom dwellers
You will see your loaches swimming near the bottom of your aquarium. To create a beautiful aquarium environment, be sure to add some middle and top swimmers as well. Ask a PetSmart associate to help you choose.

Mixing with other fish
Loaches are generaly peaceful and will live best in a community aquarium with fish of the same disposition. The Skunk loach is however territorial and should be kept with larger, tough fish.

Scaleless
Loaches either lack or have very tiny scales, which means they have almost no protection from toxic materials dissolved in the aquarium. Avoid adding medications to the aquarium unless they are specifically recommended for "scaleless" fish.

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Things to remember

Adding fish
Whether you're just starting your aquarium or introducing new fish into your tank, don't forget to add only 1-3 at a time. Loaches are not suitable for a new aquarium and should only be kept in established tanks.

Safety & cleanliness
Please remember that all pets may bite or scratch, and may transmit disease to humans. Keep your pet's home clean and wash your hands before and after handling your pet or cleaning his home. Infants, young children, pregnant women, people with compromised immune systems, and the infirm or elderly are at greater risk of infections and should use caution when in contact with the pet or its habitat. Consult your doctor for more information..

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Nutrition

Staple diet
Choose a tropical flake or sinking pellet fish food. Feed according to the directions on the packaging.

Specialty foods
Vary their diet by including frozen or freezedried bloodworms, tubifex worms and other small worms, mosquito larvae and daphnia. Always remember to thaw frozen foods before feeding.

Frequent feedings
For optimum health, feed your loaches as much food as they will consume in 1-3 minutes, twice a day. You can alternate between regular staple diet feedings and 2-4 meals per week of a specialty food.

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Health

Signs your loaches are healthy:

Eating vigorously and actively swimming together in the bottom of the aquarium
Clear eyes, smooth, clean skin and fins free from any lesions or inconsistent colorations
Calm, steady gill movements

Things to watch for:

Poor growth or weight loss
Inflamed gills, skin or fins
Fins clamped to sides
Scraping body on rocks
If you notice any of the signs described above, check your aquarium water quality and consult a PetSmart Aquatics Specialist.

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Environment

Aquarium
Minimum aquarium size for smaller species of loaches is 20 gallons, but species that get over 4" long need an aquarium that is larger. Fish such as the Golden Dojo and Clown need very large tanks when adult.

Décor
Loaches do best in aquariums that have lots of hiding places in the form of roots, driftwood and rockwork. In addition, place lots of hardy plants, such as vallisneria and java fern throughout. Larger loaches may uproot plants and Clowns may try to eat them.

Fish compatibility
Loaches can share their aquarium with other non-aggressive, tropical community fish.

Lighting
Floating plants are excellent for providing the subdued lighting loaches prefer.

Water changes
Test water weekly to assess water quality. It is recommended that 10% of your aquarium water be changed per week. At the very least, 25% of your aquarium water should be changed per month.

Water temperature
Water temperature should range between 60-70F for Golden Dojos
75-80º F for Kuhli, Zebra and Skunk
78-85F for Clown.
Use an aquarium heater to maintain water temperature.

Aquarium placement
Place your aquarium in a low-traffic area, away from direct sunlight and drafts.

Aquarium stand
An aquarium stand will safely support the weight of your filled aquarium.

PetSmart cares

.................................................................

Martin.

[mvigor]

But I must say it's far more accurate than what I would expect from a chain store. Most signage is laughable, this is decent.

I mean you can buy a 5 gallon hex tank with a photo of a filled version housing 25 fancy goldfish. THAT's a lot bigger problem than this care sheet.

Edit: OK, I exaggerate, I can only count 7 fancy goldfish:

[shari2]

Petsmart really is taking their philosophy and beginning to apply it to their fish departments more than they used to.
They are a retail business and are a very BIG corporation, but they are moving. The wheels just spin slowly. They did take NCIAC seriously (after they got literally thousands of respectful letters) and dialogged with us regarding our concerns. Updated store signs, and these updated care sheets reflect some of that.

Loaches are (as we know) not all that well publicized, other than clowns, and little enough concern was taken of them other than as snail eaters for tropical tanks by the vast majority of fishkeepers. That is changing.

[shari2]

Currently LOL has a printable poster on Hillstream Loach essentials.
There is a talented person here who's volunteered to do a few printable brochures of a general nature on Loach groups in general and their care needs.

Any recommendations for what would be most helpful? My thoughts were:

aggressive loaches
hillstream loaches--we do have the poster, do we want a 'brochure' type page?
brook loaches
botiine loaches
khuli loaches
weather loaches

[BlueFrog]

Had to go buy ferret food, so stopped in at the PetSmart on lunch break and snagged a tri-fold. Dont have access at work to the scanner, so heres a doc with the pictures of the front/back layout, and what it currently says in stores about loaches - it should be the same information as on the fact sheet on the website tho.

http://blue-frog.ca/PS-loach.pdf

[Martin Thoene]

I see one difference there (important) from the link to their website and that's in temperature, where it says "depending on loach type".

There might be other detail differences that I missed.

Martin.

[helen nightingale]

weather loaches fact sheets is a very good idea - too many places sell them alongside other loaches in tanks that are probably cooking the poor creatures.