Companion fish for loaches

[bobthefish]

Hi all- this is my first post on this site- what a great forum you have here!

I am contemplating turning my 8x2x2 african cichlid aquarium into a river biotope aquarium. I'd like to keep only fish from SE asia, but also could go for a cosmopolitan collection. I'd like to keep a sizeable school of clown loaches in the aquarium- currently I haven't got any, and I miss the little slimey beggars!

My question is, what other fish would/could go into a river tank, that would be happy? What would YOU put in there?

We have very restrictive import laws in Oz- so more common fish are available, but many loaches and other fish are difficult to get.

I'm thinking of planting it with aponogeton crispus, java fern and a small grove of crypts.

Here's some of the fish I'd like to put in there:

SE Asia
Khuli Loaches!!!
School of tiger barbs
Schools of zebras
Giant or pearl danios
SAE's
RT Black Shark
Rainbowfish

Or maybe cosmopolitan:
Blockhead cichlids
Kribensis
A syno cat or two

Please comment on my choices, or give me ideas!

Thanks all!

[Rocco]

I'm no expert but converting your african cichlid aquarium will mean that you have to throw out all your non-calcifying decor like sand and rocks so that it doesn't raise the PH of your tank water.

Next, I think cichlids and loaches don't go together well.

How big is your tank? I'll leave it at that and hope that others more knowledgeable than I can help you better.

[Diana]

I would look at the temperature preferences of the Asian fish.
Clowns like it relatively warm, Danios come from cooler streams. I think the Giants are a better choice, if their temperature tolerance is high enough. Are some of the lesser known Danios available? There is a web site devoted specifically to Danios that might help with ID and requirements.

Perhaps some of the larger barbs, such as Spanner Barbs, (AKA T-Barbs).
I would avoid Tiger Barbs. They have quite a reputation for nipping. If you want a striped fish like this, look at Pentazona and Ruby barbs. The female Rubies and immature males are striped (though not quite as nicely as Tigers) and the mature, dominant males are velvety black with a ruby red nose.

Many Rainbow fish have a wide range of tolerance as far as pH and water hardness goes, but some prefer more alkaline conditions than the Clowns. Many Rainbows thrive in the warmer water, and I definitely would look into Rainbows as companions.

If there will be calmer areas in the tank then many of the Gouramis are good choices. Pearl or Moonlight tend to be more peaceful than 3-spot. If this is going to be a river tank like Martin's 'Life in the Fast Lane' article, then forget Gouramis.

Siamese Algae Eaters are a good choice.

[bobthefish]

I do love Gouramis!

Thanks Diana- lots to work with there.

[LoachOrgy]

im finding the cherry barbs and upside down catfish love to play along side the clowns and zebras.

[bobthefish]

Cherry barbs are pretty.

Here's what Im thinking: (some or all of- I haven't done the numbers to see if it's overkill yet of not. I do hate an overcrowded tank)

School Clown Loaches (12 or more)
School (6 or so) Pakistani Loaches
school of khulis (around 8-12)
school dwarf loaches (6-8)
school of zebras (6-8)

pair of pearl gourami
pair of banded gourami
3-4 pair of snakeskin gourami


smallish school of giant danios
small group of rainbow fish of some type or another
and now Cherry barbs!

[Diana]

I think you are overloading the top and bottom.
Gouramis are territorial and will defend their space at the top. In an 8' long tank there might be room for about 4 Gouramis, if the decorations are laid out to help define the territories. Even that may not work, I had a Cosby that claimed all of a 6' long tank, and harassed all other top dwelling fish. Even the Giant Danios stayed a little lower than normal, and swam away when he showed up.

Too many Loaches. A dozen Clowns is all you really should put in there.

Too much disparity in sizes. Even if the larger fish are not really going to eat the littler ones the little fish will be under constant stress that the bigger one might be a predator. Fish instincts are still geared to the wild, and predators come and go. What they see out of the corner of their eye might not be the same fish that they were friendly with yesterday. (Now someone will ask how can fish with round eyes have a 'corner of their eye')

[bobthefish]

good point re aggression- though I've found gouramis in general to be more peaceful than others who've commented on the net. I did say some or all, not all the fish LOL!

I think I'd drop the moonlights and the snakeskins, as they get too big, and would throw the scale off. Keep clowns and zebras or dwarves, a smallish group of khulis, and maybe try a mid-sized group of cherry barbs- they are colourful!

9 clown loaches
5 zebra loaches
6 khuli loaches

1 pair pearl gourami
1 pair banded gourami
1 pair dwarf gourami

a school of cherry barbs or black ruby barbs

some SAE's

Plants- Vals or aponogeton crispus, java fern and a few thickets of crypts- proably in clumps. Some duckweed and certopteris (spelling!) floating on the top.

Decor: Driftwood (lots of it) and some rounded stones. Caves of course!

Diana- you are better than the left side of my brain for bouncing ideas off of, though that's not saying much, as my wife tells me it's dessicated, and never worked well in the first place.

[Martin Thoene]

Hi bob and welcome to Loaches Online.

The title of this thread suggests that the Clowns are your primary focus here correct?
Therefore, just as we encourage the setup for an aquarium should be focussed on their needs and other occupants should fit into that scenario without being compromised in their needs of acceptable parameters.

An 8x2x2 aquarium gives you lots of scope and will make a great home if properly configured. As has been said everything from the Cichlid setup has to go if it is calciferous in nature.

I would use an inert sand substrate and your plans for bogwood and rounded stones match my own Clown tank's decor. The bogwood will release beneficial tannins into the water. That colour can always be removed by using carbon and will eventually stop anyway. Your planting sounds good. You might consider Java Fern tied to the bogwood so's it eventually latches on and spreads.

Some duckweed and certopteris (spelling!) floating on the top

That's going to be a no-no if you've got adequate surface movement, especially if it's in one direction.

When you say a "river tank" are you contemplating something like my River-Tank manifold setup? http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium

Clowns absolutely need high oxygenation of their water and relish lots of water movement. I'm assuming that you already have a reasonably good filtration system for this tank knowing normal Rift Cichlid stocking levels?
What you want to acheive is a good rippling effect on the water surface. This helps enormously with gaseous exchange. Unfortunately, having this kind of water movement really procludes any Gourami species as they won't be happy with that.

I would modify/mix you listings thus:

12 Clown Loaches
6-8 Zebra (B. striata) loaches
(Maybe) 12 dwarf loaches (Y. sidthimunki) ....a bigger group is better..... but I would take other's input on keeping them with Clowns
A single RTBS
Small group of Rainbowfish (Glossolepis incisus would be a nice injection of red)
A few true SAE's

I would leave out the kuhlis as a Clown setup isn't suitable. They need a far quieter, easier going environment.
Cherry barbs need lower temperatures than these other fish will be happy at that's why I'm suggesting Red Rainbows as a substitute.

Funnily enough I have a 45 gallon tank set up now with 10 kuhlis and 10 Cherry Barbs. They're getting on famously.

For Clowns you want to be looking in the 82F (28C) range.

You could always look at some of the newer available species of medium barbs if they are available in Oz, such as arulius and filamentosus.

Martin.

[bobthefish]

Excellent Martin, good advice!

Your manifold tank was definitely in my mind when considering this set-up- IMHO it's one of the best-looking set-up's I've seen.

[Martin Thoene]

Cool! Thanks very much

What existing filtration equipment or pumps do you have?

Martin.