No, I was so surprised that I did a double take. For a second I thought I had another kuhli.mikev wrote:Maybe bones or muscle showing through the skin?
(But never say no: there maybe ten subspecies out there that were never documented....I just saw a really nice looking and apparently undocumented loach)
Kuhlis can be weird
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All right, a mental note to look carefully next time I come across young/skinny black kuhlis. You would not have those pictures per chance?
Good luck with it. It appears that this has never been accomplished by anyone. I wish I had space for yet one more tank...one of the black kuhlies looks like a very promising female and there is no hope in the community loach tank where everything gets eaten (and perhaps more than once...)gulogulo wrote:My plan is to give all of them after quarantine a tank of their own in hopes of enabling the breeding process.
I will keep my eyes open on the new P.j.'s for stripes. I am still trying to capture some decent photos of the new guys, quick little buggers! 
mikev,
I did not mean to suggest that the stripes don't occur but merely to add my observations to the fray. I have had mine for quite some time and they have survived a lot (when my kids were babies the tanks were given less than optimal treatment).
mikev,
I did not mean to suggest that the stripes don't occur but merely to add my observations to the fray. I have had mine for quite some time and they have survived a lot (when my kids were babies the tanks were given less than optimal treatment).
Of course, as we all. While I don't buy the stripes on P.javanicus idea, we've seen much crazier stuff like dot growing or pattern redesigns, so if P.Javanicus actually have very light stripes, it would be a small thing...gulogulo wrote:I did not mean to suggest that the stripes don't occur but merely to add my observations to the fray.
Anything you learn about these guys would be very interestring.
I actually pay very little attention to them: I cannot identify them, so there is no behavior to observe. If someone can figure a way to tag them (say with color dots, or a barcode), it would be really nice.
To observe my suspected gravid black khuli I had to wait an hour near the tank and once in a while a black khuli comes out so I can check it..then another black khuli comes out, maybe the same one,...boring like hel....
All right, the stripes are REAL. They are just hard to see, but when a couple of loaches came very close to the tank glass, I saw them.
I don't think they are pigmentation stripes, it is something from the anatomy that creates an illusion. They are also very regular and narrow, I'd estimate that each P.Javanicus has 30-40 of them. Cannot really count them---they are quite visible at the front and fade toward the tail.
Thank you Wendie!
I don't think they are pigmentation stripes, it is something from the anatomy that creates an illusion. They are also very regular and narrow, I'd estimate that each P.Javanicus has 30-40 of them. Cannot really count them---they are quite visible at the front and fade toward the tail.
Thank you Wendie!
Still hiding in the corner. But I think she'll be ok, she actually eats -- if I manage to throw a shrimp pellet close enough to her.Wendie wrote:What's the update with the female?
Ready for more mystery stuff?
The other new girl is no longer gravid either.
This makes 3 out of 3: all gravid female khulis I got (in the gravid state) lost it (but one recovered in a month).
Guess #1: something wrong with my tanks. I don't think this is the case because the same tank has two more gravid females -- but these developed eggs here and were not moved.
Guess #2: gravid khulis must not be moved. If this is the case, things are quite bad, because I'll have to move them out of the community at some point, hopefully by the end of string... I really hope this is not the case.
Guess #3: the tank has another pretty large khuli, likely P.M., and likely a male. He is the most active khuli I have and chased other khulis before (I posted what he did on another thread, I can find it and copy here). So we have two female P.S. who kept the eggs, and two female P.M.'s who lost them. (cybermeez thinks that this one is a P.S., I think she is a P.M.) I did not see him chasing the new girls, but he was "bundling" with them a lot. No way to know and unfortunately there will be no eggs in this tank -- pakistani terrorists will take care of them pronto. But if this is not a coincidence, it is an argument for P.S. and P.M. being indeed different.
And it also offers a idea: move the girls to a safe tank for a couple of months to build up the egg supply, and let the P.M. male cool off with P.S' of any sex. Then move him to the girls' tank. Maybe worth trying.?
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Incidentally, there were at least a couple of gravid females in the new kuhli batch. Either this is the season indeed, or I developed a better eye for this thing...
mike,
Are your P.j.s big or little. I watched my old timers extensively, they come out a lot and I saw no evidence of striping, I was looking very closely for stripes. I also think one is starting to become gravid, she has increased in girth over the last week significantly. No greenish abdomen though.
The little ones weren't very cooperative tonight. They came out briefly but were moving too fast for any subtle observation. Plus three of them still show the mottled pattern. I think they are all javanicus but am still unsure. Are there anatomical difference between javanicus and piperata? or is it strickly coloration.
Are your P.j.s big or little. I watched my old timers extensively, they come out a lot and I saw no evidence of striping, I was looking very closely for stripes. I also think one is starting to become gravid, she has increased in girth over the last week significantly. No greenish abdomen though.
The little ones weren't very cooperative tonight. They came out briefly but were moving too fast for any subtle observation. Plus three of them still show the mottled pattern. I think they are all javanicus but am still unsure. Are there anatomical difference between javanicus and piperata? or is it strickly coloration.
Current loach residents- 14 Pangio semicincta, 2 P. doriae, 4 P. myersi, 1 P. shelfordi, 5 P. anguilaris, 6 P. oblonga, 8 P. cuneovirgata 5 Chromobotia macracantha, 3 Gastromyzon ctenocephalus, 3 Gastromyzon species unknown
I don't know what big or little meansAre your P.j.s big or little
They are all the same size, about 2.5", and they all became fatter --but not longer, I think --- in the six months I had them. And, as I said, I don't know who is who, they are all too alike.The one I suspect gravid did not show any body distortions, only the tint. But then most of my striped gravid females are only "slightly" gravid: green color, but no girth increase (but in a couple there is such increase and it is almost as large as on Martin's photo).
I think, you (and me too) should get and read all the papers by Kotelatt, it would be there somewhere. We should take what he says very critically, since I still have very serious doubts about his P.M./P.S. division, but he really collected lots of data which we will not find on the web.Are there anatomical difference between javanicus and piperata?
The other question one can ask is if your javanicus are the same as mine and Wendie's.---a priori, we don't know. Some javanicus are almost black, some dark reddish (like mine). What does this mean?
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Mark in Vancouver
- Posts: 14252
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: British Columbia
They've been a favorite for over 50 years now so I don't think it's going to change. I can just sit and watch them for hours. They're restful and funny as the devil at times. I am still laughing over the meeting of two blacks (one from another tank) the other day. They hit the corner at the same time, stopped, looked at each other, turned around and "sped" away as fast as they could crawl.
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