One or two groups, and group size?

[Directorate]

Thanks for the tip Directorate, but as I said, me using that name has nothing to do with the movie.

Back on topic.
I would still like to know if 8 B. histrionica combine well with 5 C. siamensis in my tank of 110cm x 45cm(depth) x 58cm(hight), 230 liters/60 gallons.
Does anyone know?

I know Mark Janssen had some problems with a group of C. siamensis, but in general most I see of them is that they are easy going fish.

The Siamese Algae Eaters will do just fine with the Histrionicas-they are both fast moving fish and the tank does have adequte elbow room-so even if there was substantial extra-species aggression, it wouldn't be a problem. Fish are like people-some of them are wimps-others are more boisterous.


Some aggression in the aquarium is good. I can't really stand tanks filled with nothing but pussies.

[shari2]

D,
Are you being deliberately provocative, or are you somewhat obtuse?
The Dutch navy is not under discussion here, neither are small furry felines.

This thread has been redirected politely several times by other members in an attempt to keep you on the topic. If you want to mess about with non-sequiturs and non-fish related topics, please take those discussions to the off-topic forum.

Meanwhile, thank you for your assessment of the compatibility of B. histrionica and C. siamensis. I do not keep histrionicas, so I have no personal opinion to share.

[Dutch]

Thanks Shari, I'll just copy and paste my question again so it doesn't get lost.

I would still like to know if 8 B. histrionica combine well with 5 C. siamensis in my tank of 110cm x 45cm(depth) x 58cm(hight), 230 liters/60 gallons.
Does anyone know?

I know Mark Janssen had some problems with a group of C. siamensis, but in general most I see of them is that they are easy going fish.

[Botia Robert]

Shari, Thanks for your response on this post. It is a great deal more constructive and diplomatic than mine would have been. Dutch, you must have the patience of gahndi! Now I will get back on topic!

I have not kept these fish either and so cannot relate personal experience. From what I have learnt I would not expect a problem. Just keep your tank size in mind as these fish can grow to 6".

A more important comment to make would be the incredible similarity between epalzeorhynchos kalopterus and crossocheilus siamensis. The first mentioned specie can become fiesty where as the second mentioned specie should be OK and prefers to be kept in schools. These fish look very similar and have interchangable common names so make sure you know what you are looking at.

[mickthefish]

dutch, here's my answer to your question,
both these fish can have arguments between each other,
as the histrionicas get larger they will have fights but not to the degree of
serious damage as will SAE's.
but besides that i can see no reason for not getting them, your only limitation is the size and speed that these two fish grow to and how fast.
with the histrionicas i'd put in the tank loads of bogwood to cut down on to many arguments.

mick

[Dutch]

Thanks Robert and Mick.
I know the siamensis are often confused, but I think I know what to look for. The siamensis has a black line that goes from the tip of the nose all the way to the end of the fin (mid-line), in other species the line seems to be shorter. The fins of siamensis are also without color, where the other has a bit of a yellow color.

I don't mind a little bit of fighting, as long as there is no serious damage. It might even give the fish a bit of natural stimulation, maintaining the hierachy. My main concern is that there is enough room for the two groups (8 histrionica and 5 siamensis) as they get to their full size. I don't have much money so upgrading to a bigger tank won't happen for at least two or three years.

I want to use a fair amount of wood and a few plants. One corner I want to try and make into something like a mangrove structure so there's a quiet corner where they can swim through the wood or hide. I think it might be a very useful addition.

[Dutch]

My main concern is that there is enough room for the two groups (8 histrionica and 5 siamensis) as they get to their full size. I don't have much money so upgrading to a bigger tank won't happen for at least two or three years.

Anybody know? (Tank size: 110cm x 45cm(depth) x 58cm(hight), 230 liters/60 gallons)
I saw an almost fully grown siamensis, they look relatively big. I really hope it works because I have set my heart on these fish and the tank is coming in two or three weeks.

[bslindgren]

I have no experience with histrionicas. so I can't speak to that. I do have 8 SAE's. I was supposed to have 4, but because the vendor in Vancouver only had very small ones which she wasn't sure would all make it, she sent me 10. Two of them died leaving me with the ones I have now. They are currently distributed between two tanks at the moment (one 33 and one 55 gal soon to be upgraded to one 120 gal - the boss has given me permission!!). Anyway, this was in October and the smallest SAE's were less than an inch long at that time. The ones in the 55 gal tank have grown like crazy and are now about 2 inches. The ones in the 33 gal have grown slightly slower, probably because they restrict themselves to eating BBA and BHA, which is why I got them in the first place. My point is that they probably grow much faster than loaches, so you MAY wish to consider fewer SAEs unless you can upgrade the tank reasonably soon. Also - do make sure you get the real SAEs or you might end up with more aggression that you intended. Mine haven't shown any untoward aggression yet, but they are still juveniles, so time will tell.

[Graeme Robson]

My main concern is that there is enough room for the two groups (8 histrionica and 5 siamensis) as they get to their full size. I don't have much money so upgrading to a bigger tank won't happen for at least two or three years.

Anybody know? (Tank size: 110cm x 45cm(depth) x 58cm(hight), 230 liters/60 gallons)
I saw an almost fully grown siamensis, they look relatively big. I really hope it works because I have set my heart on these fish and the tank is coming in two or three weeks.

Why not keep 3 C. siamensis with 6 B. histrionica and monitor the growth rates and compatibility's. I personally don't see any problems with keeping these two species together. The B. histrionica is a fast growing loach, similar with the growth rate of a B almorhae and i would imagine that the B. histrionica and C. siamensis will or should grow simultaneously of each other.

I think it's more of a personal choice regarding the numbers, rather than keeping the two species together.

[Dutch]

Thanks both. I think I'll just chance it with 8 histrionica and 5 siamensis and see how it goes. If I get the impression the tank is overcrowded I'm sure I can put some fish in the aquarium at the university. They have both species already and that tank is very big.
Of course, maybe I'll be lucky and have the money to have a tank made to my own specifications.

[Graeme Robson]

Sounds good!

[Dutch]

I've talked it over a bit with my girlfriend and we seem to agree that the best option might be to have a custom tank made. It would be something like 130 x 60 x 60cm (~400 liters/100 gallons). I would have to save extra money for it, but it would be much nicer as the depth (not hight) of the tank is much greater and I could choose the finish, etc, myself so it fits nicely in the living room.
I think it would be a good size for fully grown histrionica and siamensis.

[Dutch]

Short update on the plans.
I've sent an e-mail to the housing-corporation (don't know the correct term) who own the property I'm renting to see if the floor of my apartment will actually allow such a large tank.
My sister, who's a constructional engineer, thought I might be pushing it a bit with such a tank. Hopefully I'll be allowed to get a tank of about that size made, but I guess I have to wait a bit longer. Wouldn't like my tank ending up with the downstairs neighbors.

[Laura]

I don't keep that sp of loach, so can't comment on their compatibility, but I have 3 sae. In my opinion, and from discussion on my local forum, any aggression issues have usually been due to them being kept singly. When I was down to 2, one harassed the other, but never to the point of causing damage.
Now that I'm back up to 3, I see less bickering, and it's spread around. Interestingly, although they shoal with my puntius denisonii, I've never seen cross-species aggression.
My sae like to stay close to each other most of the time, but more plants and decor seem to help break up sight lines when one decides to chase another.
I agree they're a good sized fish when mature. I think a 4ft tank would be ideal for them, with 3 being a minimum number to keep.

[Dutch]

Thanks Laura for sharing that.
If I get a positive response back from the housing-corporation that I can place a large tank I will go ahead and start up a tank with eight B. histrionica and a group of five SAE.
The tank might be a bit smaller that 4ft, but because I want a lot of depth(width) to the tank it will still be 80 gallon or more. (The footprint will be around 3.2 x 2 ft. excluding internal filter space.)