Clown Loach spawning

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:12 pm

Hi Emma,

I think that I bought 6 in total and lost 2 early on, I cant remember but I am 100% it was 2002 as I was in my flat at the time before I moved and before my daughter was born, so yes, the 4 have been together at least 5 years. They were about 5cm long when I got them so maybe 6 years old now?

Pics are not the best but I'll try for better ones if the eggs look okay tomorrow.

At least we might know when to say eggs are not viable!!!

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:06 pm

Colin, do you normally maintain your main clown tank at 26 deg C? I just wanted to clarify that when you moved them into the spawning tank, this was also at 26 and then the large water change dropped the temp to 22? (rather than direct transferral/acclimatisation to the tank at 22 deg C). How long after the temp got back up to 26 would you say you noticed that something was going on?

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions,

Emma

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:21 pm

Tell us more. WOW. Yes Yes we want more

The eggs are well taken care of. I should have known. Nice to see some sorted. Job well done

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:26 pm

Colin, could this be made into a article on our home page, once your report is over?

We all would love to keep this for further references.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:32 pm

Welcome to LOL, Colin.

Hope to read more updates.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:50 pm

Hi

Emma, to clarify, the normal tank (300g) is about 26 or so. It tends to fluctuate a bit as my shed uses a space heater and the temperature can go up and down a few C if the weather is cold outside - which is normal up here!!! So it is not as stable as a tank with a heaterstat in it.

The 3 foot tank was set up with 100% untreated tapwater about 24 hours earlier and the temp had risen to about 22 or so when i put the loaches in. I did not acclimatise them to the temp. I knew that the water was an equal pH match as I tested it and adjusted it with acid. The loaches were transferred by lifting then out inside the pipes they hide in when i put my hands in the tank, i just covered the ends.

Each day i gave the tank a look and they were not coming out of the pipes. The temp would be at 26 by day 2 i guess. I dont tend to keep an accurate eye on tank temps as again the shed is space heated and i just check the wall thermometer and from experience know whats what.

I seen no spawning activity in the new tank, only that when a tail swished in the pipe, more eggs came out

I am really starting to agree with Kamphol now, I think I disturbed the spawning in the main tank and that the eggs i found were expelled by the female as she aborted the eggs. I think i killed the moment

Keep asking questions - its helping me piece it together!!!

One reason I didnt get an accurate size of the fish is that i transfer them in the pipes - i HATE using nets on Botias because of the eye thorns.

Graeme, I hope this is of some use to people and at least should give encouragement that it is a near possibility. I am resigning to the fact i think these eggs are dud, but maybe in the future someone else might pick up on this behaviour? I'll certainly be keeping an on them!

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:54 pm

Sorry, here is the time line to clarify

15th Oct - 36" tank cleaned out, filled with tapwater, probably about 12 deg C or so. Filtered by a Huey Hung which was mature.

16th Oct - changed pH from 7ish to 4.5 to match big tank, temp about 22 now and added loaches

checked daily, fed daily and removed uneaten food.

20th Oct - was going to put loaches back into main tank as they are not feeding and spotted big clumps of eggs washed into one end of tank. There isno substrate.

21st Oct - loaches back into big tank

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Thanks very much for all this info Colin, much appreciated.

Like Graeme says, an article for LOL detailing all this would be great if you were able to do so at some point.

The other question I meant to ask was does the large female look noticeably skinnier after expelling those eggs? Or was she a 'big girl' to start with and it doesn't notice?

shari2 wrote:Emma, do you still have the photos you posted from the spawning behavior you saw? They were in the archives on that UNUSUAL BEHAVIOR thread, but were hosted on the coppermine site that is down, now.

I really didn't know whether to put these pics here or not, as I didn't like to detract too much from Colin's achievement, but below are some of the original shots taken in March 2005 of the pre-spawning behaviour seen in my clowns. Apologies for the poor quality, the tank was in total darkness, just dimly lit by a light in the room itself. These pictures go with the 'Unusual Clown Behaviour' thread from the archives: http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/archives ... view=91242 where all the commentary on what I witnessed is stored:

The text needs to be read to make sense of what is being shown in these pics with the male trying to roll the female over. The last pic shows them rising up in what was a kind of entwined embrace.

Emma

clownloachfan · Post by **clownloachfan** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:01 pm

nice pics emma, definitely not your ordinary clown loach behavior.

andre · Post by **andre** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:13 am

The shading of the female is quite impressive!

piggy4 · Post by **piggy4** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:40 am

Well done Colin !

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:02 pm

Hi again,

well the eggs are defintely duds, very obvious today. I am tending to Kamphol's theory that I disturbed a spawning and the female expelled the eggs a couple days later.

But this does mean that I got them into condition and that hopefully i can do so again... watch this space!!!

Emma, thanks for showing the pics. I didnt notice any colour difference in the fish at all at the time, they just looked their normal colours.

As for size of the female, yes she lost a LOT of bulk. I should have counted the eggs but I have seen big spawns from other fish and I'd guess it was in the thousands, will count next time too.

If anything at all can come from my experience here then it should be that people with large mature clowns should have a go at spawning them and watching carefully in the tanks for spawning and eggs, i know i will in the future

Sorry it ends on an anti-climax but I'll try again once they have fattened up again!

cheers
Colin

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:26 pm

Thanks for the update Colin, and sorry to hear that the eggs were duds.

I'm sure you'll be able to attempt this again once you get the fish back into condition.

The fact that your loaches tend to hide in that 45 deg pipe makes transferral to another tank nice and easy. It wouldn't be so easy for me and I worry about causing mine undue stress. Plus at the moment I haven't got a spare 5ft+ tank lying around (or the space for it!) and I wouldn't want to put mine into anything smaller than that.

Keep us informed of any further news,

Emma

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:45 pm

Not to worry Colin, at least you got them in breeding condition with Pictures to share. Not like that bloke called Granville! Heheh!

clownloachfan · Post by **clownloachfan** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:50 pm

Well, hopefully in the next few years, you will be able to breed them and have fry that survive and become adults. Just remember this, it was not long ago that nobody had bred hillstream loaches successfully. Or even earlier in the hobby, tons of fish had never been bred like angelfish. They are easy fish to breed!

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