Loaches Online Forum

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:02 pm**

I'm glad I found this site! I never knew there so many kindred loach fans out there. Anyway, I've got a 30 long that I've recently setup to replace my 20 High. It currently contains 10 Silver Tip Tetras, 5 Kuhli Loaches and 1 Botia Kubotia (purchased for snail control because I knew I couldn't get a shoal Clown Loachs). I know I need a few more Botia Kubotia, but is a 30 long big enough for 3 to 5 of them? If not I'll take the one I've got back to the lfs, but I like the little guy and would like to get a few more.

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:03 pm**

Hi Rychek, and welcome to LOL.

It's that common plec you should take back. They grow fast to very huge sizes and are major waste producers.

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/pleco.htm

I'll let the others who keep your type of loach chime in on the space for more issue.

Posted: **Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:17 pm**

I'd consider keeping only three. Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki are another alternative but are often very expensive so if money is not an issue, they're for you.

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:32 am**

i kept three kubotai in a 30 gallon (36 inches... i think this factor is key) for a few months (maybe 6 months) successfully. they were young and skinny when put in and plump and playful when i moved them to a larger tank with more. i think three is the best number, though more would be good i wouldnt do more in that small ofa tank

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:51 am**

shari2 wrote:Hi Rychek, and welcome to LOL.

It's that common plec you should take back. They grow fast to very huge sizes and are major waste producers.

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/pleco.htm

I'll let the others who keep your type of loach chime in on the space for more issue.

Thanks for the welcome shari2. The Pleco's days are numbred. He isn't very big (yet), but he is growing quickly. He is a frigthtening waste producer as well.

I got the 36" tank because I believe lenghth is better than hight for loaches. They all seem much happier now that they aren't in a 24" tank. I'll probably get two more and see how that goes. My lfs sells them for $9.99 which isn't really bad, but when on a budget and trying to get a marine tank up and running, it can be prohibitive.

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:41 am**

Forget the Marine tank; turn it into a Loach tank

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:23 pm**

I'm afraid I've spent too much on the marine equipment to make a loach tank out of it now. Besides, if I make it marine, I'll have a reason to get another bigger tank for the loaches! Perhaps something I can keep a shoal of clowns in....

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:27 pm**

Forget the Marine tank; turn it into a Loach tank

Solid advice. My reef tanks make oh so nice Loach tanks. Fish load is X4 and the action is non-stop. Marine is a mainstream hobby. Loaches are a lifestyle

and yer Turbelle wave machine is more appreciated by loaches anyway........

Posted: **Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:08 pm**

I plan on having a larger loach tank some day, but when living in an apartment, you can only have so many tanks. My wife told me that once we are in a house I can get a big tank. When that day comes, my loaches will have a much larger tank to thrive in.

Loaches are a lifestyle

My first fish was a Dojo Loach (althought mywildlife encyclopedia called it a Stone Loach) that I purchased in the late 80s. I've liked loaches ever since. I'm currently trying Kuhlis and Angelicus loaches though.

Posted: **Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:16 am**

Rychek wrote:My lfs sells them for $9.99 which isn't really bad, but when on a budget and trying to get a marine tank up and running, it can be prohibitive.

$9.99 is a good price for Kubs. They are neat fish! IMHO you can keep 3 in a 36" tank. They grow very, very slowly.

I know what you mean about the marine tank. I have a 120 reef and can't bear to think about all the $$ I've put into it. Once you get the initial set up the cost becomes more insidious. A coral here, a fish there....

Posted: **Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:27 pm**

I have 3 medium and 7 small ones in a 33 gal 36 inch long tank. I'll no doubt have to upgrade as they grow, but I think this tank will last quite a while for them. One way of thinking about it is to have no more than 1 inch of fish per gallon, but obviously the more space the better.

Posted: **Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:34 am**

One way of thinking about it is to have no more than 1 inch of fish per gallon...

That old wanker is still making the rounds?

Let's think about it.

"One inch of fish"...is that a linear measurement?
Lengthwise or heightwise? Hmmmm...
One inch lengthwise of a khuli loach, and one inch lengthwise of, say - Marge?
Are they comparable? You can't even get one inch heightwise of a khuli...

Seriously. The ole 'one inch per gallon' thing is problematic on so many levels I can't believe it's still being considered. To start with, fish are three dimensional.

How about one cubic inch of fish? Will that work? How do you measure a cubic inch of fish?

Sheesh.

Things to consider when stocking a tank:

Adult sizes of the fish you house - you do expect them to become adults, right?
Waste production and the filtration to handle it.
Oxygen needs of the population.
Water movement (or lack thereof) preferred by your fish.
Territorial needs.
Environmental needs - do they need rocks, wood, plants, open space?
Social needs - are they schooling fish, loners, gangbangers or couples?
Swimming space - are they vigorous swimmers, or do they just hang out?
Compatibility of species - water parameters, aggression levels, feeding habits.

Consider all these things (and I'm sure you all can come up with others) and then factor in the size of the tank you have available, your ability to create and maintain a stable environment within it, and the interactions among the inhabitants.

THEN tell me how 'one inch per gallon' will help you to select fish responsibly.

OK. rant over. sorry all.

Posted: **Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:01 am**

Quote:
One way of thinking about it is to have no more than 1 inch of fish per gallon...

That old wanker is still making the rounds?

Thanks Shari for bringing up this topic. This has been playing on my mind for some time. I am sorry this has gone off the original thread topic. Please move this if nessesary.

My perspective on this rule is this. Consider stocking a clown tank (as many of us here would).

Firstly I agree with the comments about an adult female clown is very 3 dimensional. 12" of Marge is a lot different to 12" of Bala Shark.
Secondly, I intend to keep my clowns untill they outlive me. So I will calculate conservatively an adult size of 10" each. However it will take them at least 12 years to get that big. So I will be understocked for a long time if I use this rule.
Thirdly, Calculating for adult size does not allow one to keep many clowns in a tank. A 6x2x2 foot equalling about 160 gal would only allow about 12 clowns once you allow for dithers and cleaners.

The "social" issues mentioned are important too. However I had only considered this problem from the perspective of filtration. In this respect stocking levels would be dependent upon the amount of nitrate present rather than the amount of inches of fish.

Posted: **Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:42 am**

A 6x2x2 foot equalling about 160 gal would only allow about 12 clowns once you allow for dithers and cleaners.

My calculations come up with 15 older Clowns in a 285 with minimum dithers or a 8'x30"x30" with a 200 sump. These fishes need are way under estimated by most.

Quote:
One way of thinking about it is to have no more than 1 inch of fish per gallon...

That old wanker is still making the rounds?

Let's think about it.

"One inch of fish"...is that a linear measurement?
Lengthwise or heightwise? Hmmmm...
One inch lengthwise of a khuli loach, and one inch lengthwise of, say - Marge?
Are they comparable? You can't even get one inch heightwise of a khuli...

Seriously. The ole 'one inch per gallon' thing is problematic on so many levels I can't believe it's still being considered. To start with, fish are three dimensional.

How about one cubic inch of fish? Will that work? How do you measure a cubic inch of fish?

Sheesh.

Things to consider when stocking a tank:

Adult sizes of the fish you house - you do expect them to become adults, right?
Waste production and the filtration to handle it.
Oxygen needs of the population.
Water movement (or lack thereof) preferred by your fish.
Territorial needs.
Environmental needs - do they need rocks, wood, plants, open space?
Social needs - are they schooling fish, loners, gangbangers or couples?
Swimming space - are they vigorous swimmers, or do they just hang out?
Compatibility of species - water parameters, aggression levels, feeding habits.

Consider all these things (and I'm sure you all can come up with others) and then factor in the size of the tank you have available, your ability to create and maintain a stable environment within it, and the interactions among the inhabitants.

THEN tell me how 'one inch per gallon' will help you to select fish responsibly.

OK. rant over. sorry all

No apology required. Good info with a amusing delivery.......

Posted: **Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:01 am**

I love kubotai loaches! they, for me, are the best. I keep 8 of them in a 75 gallon tank and they're absolutely awesome.

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