90 Gallon Cold Water Tank

[Slough Shark]

I'm helping my friend plan a Cold Water Tank. It will be from 60 to 90 Gallons, no less, but maybe more. He loves Loaches and Goldfish (and all other fish too ), but I thought that a large-ish goldfish/loach community would be a spectacular tank.

I figure if the tank is 60 Gallons:
2x Black Moore Goldfish
4x Dojo Loaches
6x Yoyo Loaches

or if 90 Gallons:
3x Black Moore Goldfish
6x Dojo Loaches
8x Yoyo Loaches

Does anyone think this is too much? Reccomend anything else tat would fit in well in that tank? No schooling minnows as the goldfish will be certain to eat them.

Thanks,
Taylor

[Mark in Vancouver]

Yoyo loaches are tropical fish. They would have to be kept in a heated tank.

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-almorhae

[Slough Shark]

The tank would be at 20C, would the two degrees make that much difference?

If not, how about a group of Schistura sp. then?

Thanks for the input Mark,
Taylor

[Mark in Vancouver]

Schistura may not be ideal, because they require a high water flow rate. This would conflict with both the Dojo loaches and the goldfish.

The two degrees you mention are between the actual temperature and the very minimum temperature for Yoyos. I would keep (and have done) Yoyos at around 26C. So, yes - this would be a problem.

Cold water tanks are tricky, IMO. If you add a heater, your stocking options wildly increase.

But you're doing exactly the right thing - checking before stocking.

If it were my tank, I'd go for a 60 gallon brook loach situation. You'd have to add at least two powerheads to generate flow, and a heater to keep the temps stable at 20 - 22C. Then you'd have scores of cool loaches that would work.

It sounds like your friend is set on goldfish, so this really wouldn't work.

[Slough Shark]

I think that we could just push the degrees up to 23-24C and then we would be OK for the Loaches, and the Goldfish will easily adapt to that kind of temperature.

Since neither the Yoyos or Dojos need alot of water flow, he should be fine right?

[shari2]

Fancy goldfish will do fine in higher temps that tropical fish need, though I've read that due to the higher metabolic rate they experience at higher temps their lifespan may be shortened (one source listed 8 years).
dojos are truly sub tropical or coldwater fish and won't do well in lukewarm water long term.

You'll have to come to your own decision with your friend regarding his tank. Just offering the information I have available for your consideration.

[Jim Powers]

The problem I see is that you would be making both species live in less than ideal conditions for either of them just to have a combination tank.
Sometimes in fish keeping you just have to make a choice as to whether you want to just keep a certain fish, or keep them in the proper conditions. I urge you to reconsider this kind of setup and go with either a dedicated cool or cold water tank or a dedicated YoYo tank or both.

[Slough Shark]

Thanks guys,

The fancy goldfish are definite, my buddy wants them for sure. If warmer water shortens their life span to 8 years, that's not a problem, even 5 years would be fine as this is his first "serious" tank and I am expecting him to change his mind about the tank within 2 years (probably get some Dwarf Snakeheads eventually).

So if we keep the tank at 24C, which will be fine for the goldfish as I have kept them in that temperature range for years, would it be possible to have any other loaches besides Dojos? Though this tempeature range may also be seen as not ideal for the Dojos, I have to consider that they exist (and are resented) in tropical countries (Australia, Hawaii). So I'm sure they will fare well, with a shortened life-span, same as the goldfish.

With that kind of temperature, do any of the smaller Botia-type loaches become possible? I have no experience with these loaches...

Thanks for the help planning guys,
Taylor

[Slough Shark]

OK,

I'm being greedy with planning this tank, and it will probably victimize the fish in the long run. So I guess I'd better do this right since it's my friend's first serious tank.

I guess the Goldfish make it certainly a coldwater tank and I had better not house the Dojos in warm water, I've forgotten my own motto "just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done"!!!

So what are my options for loaches in a coldwater tank? Is it limited to Dojos?

Sorry for the confusion guys, just disregard the above post if you will,
Taylor

[Mark in Vancouver]

I don't want to offend, but this seems crazy to me. Why would anyone go out and knowingly acquire animals to be kept in such a way that shortens their lives? There is no reason that your friend needs to keep loaches, and as a loach enthusiast, I object to the very concept of keeping them this way.

I don't know anything about fancy goldfish, but why can't your friend just do one or the other and try to do it well?

This is like getting a dog and only feeding it celery sticks. Sure, you know its life will be short and unpleasant, but so what? You can always get another one later and treat it properly...

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

[Slough Shark]

Yeah, I realized that was basically what was going on, so now I'm making sure that I'm calling the shots on the planning or he won't be getting any help from me.

Bear in mind he is an absolute beginner, and I don't know much about loaches, that's why I posted it here. This is what it comes down to:

So what are my options for loaches in a coldwater tank? Is it limited to Dojos?

[Emma Turner]

There are a lot of Chinese loach species that live in cooler waters, but most of these have high flow requirements, which will not suit the goldfish. Better to stick with a large group of Weather (Dojo) Loaches and enjoy their playful interactions.

Emma

[Slough Shark]

Good idea, thanks Emma. I guess we could risk some White Cloud Minnows, who knows, maybe the Goldfish will be mild-mannered and will not harm them.

It sounds like a solid plan now. I'm glad that I will be able to go look at Goldfish in their full splendour in such a spacious tank, plus a whole whack of Dojos will be magnificent.

How many Loaches would you say should go in a 60 Gallon or 90 Gallon?

Thanks for all of the input guys,
Taylor