Loaches Online Forum

Has anybody ever tried feeding their loaches cooked chicken, beef, pork, etc...? In addition to to the flake, pellets, frozen and other stuff you can buy at the store I also feed every sort of vegetable I can get my hands on and cooked shrimp. I've seen many posts about the different things people feed their fish, but I've never seen any mention of meat (besides seafood). I'm always looking for something new to feed my little guys

Thanksw

Hi,

I'm a newbie in your forum. During this times, my English is not so good, so "forgive" me some errors, please. An introduction about my person maybe a little bit later.

So now to your question.

In germany some guys feeds her fishes (discus, big cichlids) with feed from so called warmblood animals (meat), for example heart from cattle/cows. This starts many heavy discussion about this feed. But the major opinion is, this is a realy unfortunally feed.

On this site (only in german) could you read, heart from cattle/cows is hard to digest for fishes.

>Rinderherz ist für den Verdauungsapparat der Fische schwer verdaulich. Die Fette und Eiweiße des Warmblüterfleisches müssen daher zum großen Teil durch die Nieren (Eiweiß) und die Leber (Fette) verarbeitet werden, was zu einer Schädigung dieser Organe führen kann. Die führt zur Verfettung und als letzte Stufe zum Ausfall des betreffenden Organs. Häufiger zeigen sich vorher bereits Stoffwechselstörungen, die sich bei einigen Fischen (z.B. Diskus) in übermäßig ausgezogenen Flossen äußern können. Weiterhin sind so gefütterte Fische sehr häufig besonders bullig und zeigen einen harten Übergang vom Rücken zur Rückenflosse, die bei angemessener Ernährung eher fließend wirken würde. Natürlich kann das nicht pauschal betrachtet werden. Es gibt auch Fische, die von Natur aus eine scharfe Grenze an dieser Stelle besitzen. Bei Ernährung mit hohem Anteil an Warmblüterfleisch kann es zu einem plötzlichen Tod ohne erkennbaren Grund kommen. Die Fische sterben dann bei "bester Gesundheit". <


The fat and the protein from this feed have to digest by kidney and liver. This could destructing this organs. In the last stadium this organs fail her functions.

If you feed your fishes with this feed, they dying suddenly, althought you can't see any reason for this dead. You mean, they are healthy.

"Counterquestion": Did you hear, that fishes eat meat (sharks or piranha, maybe. But also these fishes eat more other fish, than "warmblood" animals) or cook this meat?

In my opinion, it would be not better, if you cook the meat, because the basics of this meat (fat and proteins) are the same. After cooking, maybe the structure are a little bit different, but not realy.

Last but not least loaches are not so big fishes like cichlids (Chiclas), arowanas, stingrays and so on. So they don't eat meat in "one times". This load the water. No matter if digest or undigest. And big cichlids or other fishes do you feed more with other fish than with meat.

I hope, you could understand the meaning of my sentences.

Greetings
Dirk

Your English is much better than my German and you make some good points Dirk. Welcome,we hope to hear more from you.

Has anybody ever tried feeding their loaches cooked chicken, beef, pork, etc...? In addition to to the flake, pellets, frozen and other stuff you can buy at the store I also feed every sort of vegetable I can get my hands on and cooked shrimp. I've seen many posts about the different things people feed their fish, but I've never seen any mention of meat (besides seafood). I'm always looking for something new to feed my little guys

Breakdown of these become the problem whether loose in the water or in the fish. The Brits referring to Prawns as feed are what we call the popcorn shrimp here. In the States Prawns are 4" or larger shrimp. We have many more words on this side of the Pond btw. The frozen popcorn shrimp peeled and divined is the best IMHO for eatability (is that a word now) and I do use live earthworms as they are almost 100% protein. The small shrimp can be purchased for 5.00 a pound frozen and that is 1/3 the cost of earthworms. The shrimp break up nicely and are easily consumed by the fish as opposed to solid meat which is much better suited to carnivores as Dirk stated.Although you can feed beefheart and the like , the risk to your filtration as it does not break down is much greater and not worth it. In a small system or a closed tank I would not feed anything like that because of that risk unless it was shaved ever so small for the fish to eat but it is not worth the risk and I see no benefits IMHO.

Hello again (no, I'm not a fan from Howard Carpendale),

I. in some books or magazines in germany are some pictures from (death) fishes, which feeded with beefheart. No I find a good picture, that show you, how unfortunally beefheart and other meat is. Please check this link.

This picture shows a malawicichlid, whose feed beefheart. (Please not: for some species from the lake of malawi are "normal" fishfood (shrimps, daphnia...) deathly, because they need algae or rather the microoranism in the algae ="aufwuchs").

Back to the topic:

>>Die Leber (Bildmitte) hat beim gesunden Fisch die Farbe, die hier an den freigelegten Kiemen zu sehen ist.<<

(please note: the translation is not 1:1. But the main statement is in my opinion important.)

The liver (center) is in this case fat. This is the reason for the colour ("yellow" or beige). Healthy fishes get red liver like the gill!

The next passage tells, what I wrote before:

>Dieses wichtigste Stoffwechselorgan wurde durch die extreme Verfettung völlig funktionslos, was letztendlich zum Tod führte. Und dies sogar ohne äußerlich auffallende Fettleibigkeit. Magen-Darmtrakt und sonstige Organe sind unter einem glitzernden Fettbrei begraben.<

the main organs lost/failed their function, without you can see the fish is "fat". The reason for these failfunction is the extremly fatness. The disgestiontract (under the liver) and other organs are under a glitter mass of fat.


II. Other good feed are earthworm, you say it Tinman! Tip: Before you feed the fishes with this worms, put the worms in a dry glas (jarrow?/for marmelade). So they can lost the slime from the skin and empty the disgestiontract. The feed is more for cichlids or other "bigger" fishes, like bigger clownloaches. The earthworms go bad in a short times an than they stink.

Like earthworms are Eisenia_fetida.

III. Tinman get it right, if you feed meat, you have to make a big waterchange/waterrotation with fresh water, although you use a filtersystem.

Here are recipes, which you can make by your own. But this is also in german

I'll try to translate, if you want it.

Best regards
Dirk

Hi JonG.

Meat is not an option for loaches.

In the link you find a picture of a fish, that has been fed Beef-heart for a few weeks

http://www.aquamax.de/HG12.htm


Hallo Dirk,

check out www.aquamax.de regarding beef-heart, it´s in general a great site

Hello Wolfram,

the world is a little village. I believe, we know each other from Olaf's forum.

I know this site. more for the topic algae.

The picture is the same like the picture in my link.

B.t.w.

Best regards
Dirk

Hallo Dirk,

Thats wild! (Germans make exclamationmarks everywhere). Your recent posting was not there yet, when I started writing mine You were faster.
Yes, same pic - I linked directly to the author Bernd Kaufmann. Great input. Well, this way we made sure, eyh?

I find it very benefitial, that your link inidicates not only the risk of wrong food, but also the threat to the fish-liver of too much food in general - that´s a very good reminder (hmmm no German posting, thus no additional exclamation marks, in German there would be 3 of them – at least ).

Yes, wolfram wasserscheu is the same, here & there (...and I´ve even tried to describe the HMF here, years ago... that’s a very common and efficient way of filter method used by many users in Olaf´s forum…). Sorry my ignorance, which Dirk are you? Your site http://www.cichlidenwelt.de/wbb/ ?
Occasionally there are some more here, from Olaf´s Forum. And some are at Olaf´s site from here (at least reading) ...

Loaches globalise...

Gruss

Hello Wolfram,

yes, loaches globalise!

I have to introduce by myself! It's really nescessary. English was for 14 years ago. Damn.

Wolfram, you get it right. Not only the wrong feed, but also too much feed are dangerous for fishes in generally.

I read your postings in Olafs Forum about the sewellia lineolata. Great thread! L8p (in Eglish or in German???) make great postings and pictures! The discussion are very intensive and in high level!

I left Olaf's forum some month ago. The reason was... eeeehm, among other things topic's about the "little" fishes und my interess about fishes are different/was changing. The other "things" are not so important for this forum!
If you looking for me, please note: My Nick there and here are the same. But Olaf erase my, so you can't find me no more in this forum. Maybe a link: http://www.aquaristikimdetail.de/wbb-3/ ... C+6+wochen
I hope, you read this topic "right"!

No, http://www.cichlidenwelt.de/wbb/ is'nt my own page. It should be sign, that my maininteress are cichlids. I know the owner from this forum and some users there. They are great people with many know how in cichlids and also in aquaristic in generally. I learn many things about "my" favorite fishes und there also great pics from them.

I think, a good thread about the HMF are very important! I hear in the other forum, there are some guys from the netherlands, scandinavia and so on are very interessed about/by (?) this filtersystem.

I have not really an own page. I work on it in little steps, but there are some things more important.

So. I have to go to work.

Nice to read you here and the other users! It's very nice!


Best regards
Dirk

Sorry Dirk, I´m short on time... just looked at your link very briefly...

Anyway, Olaf´s Forum is one of the best German Forums I know. It does focus on serious fishkeeping and discusses, like you observed, on a high level. A lot of know how is being presented.

Gruss

Folks:

Years ago I could read German very well, write German which was understandable to someone who was fluent in German but can yall imagine what speaking German with a West Texas Drawl was like.

wasserscheu wrote:Anyway, Olaf´s Forum is one of the best German Forums I know. It does focus on serious fishkeeping and discusses, like you observed, on a high level. A lot of know how is being presented.

After 35 years my understanding of the information presented is very minimal.

I feed beef heart recipes and variations thereof (ie. a shrimp recipe, a fish recipe, etc.).

To the best of my knowledge I have not had a problem feeding these recipes.

I believe (although do not know for sure) that page referenced above as well as previous posts are referring to feeding "only beef heart".

My recipes contain as much if not more veggies than the meatie which I am using, vitamins, yeast and "lastly but not leastly" garlic.

TR

looks like the beef in Texas is better quality

hmm ... personally I don´t have experience with any meat (except I keep desireing that famous Texas-breakfast - many ounces of great steak and 6 eggs with it - not every day - but some day I´ll do that, if I ever make it to Texas).

Beef heart is sold in many lfs. and used by a lot of breeders, as it makes fish grow faster. There are some reports about breeders giving up on that though, recently I read about Italien quality Discus, feed without beef heart.

I personally do not recommending it just by what I´ve read and heard.

Mahlzeit ( = good apetite)

wasserscheu wrote: hmm ... personally I don´t have experience with any meat (except I keep desireing that famous Texas-breakfast - many ounces of great steak and 6 eggs with it - not every day - but some day I´ll do that, if I ever make it to Texas).

wasserscheu:

It also does not hurt a thing to "run around with a gal" from New Mexico who has a ranch and cattle.

The rib eyes off an 800 pound calf which is an Angus cross breed, has been custom feed, has all the marbling (fat exterior) and been aged 28 days before processing is way better than those served in any steak house.


Folks:

I just thought about something based on the following quote

wasserscheu wrote:Beef heart is sold in many lfs

as well as the dissection photograph in the page which was referenced in Dirk's post.

When I prepare a beef heart recipe I trim (or have the butcher trim) all fat and gristle as well as any viscera from the meat and these byproducts are discarded.

I have never purchased commercially prepared beef heart recipes as I believe that these contain the byproducts cited above.

TR

Oh wow!!!! My Loaches eat Discus flakes, Discus Pellets. Bloodworms,brownworms, Beefheart and algae pellets. Since they started sharing their tank with the Discus the Loaches have gotten bolder,bigger and much prettier.

chicken heart cut into strips is very popular; same consistency as earth worms. Only fed as a treat though, when chook-bits were bought for other family members.
Never had drama.
A

andyroo wrote:chicken heart cut into strips is very popular; same consistency as earth worms. Only fed as a treat though, when chook-bits were bought for other family members.
Never had drama.
A

Andy:

I very much enjoy double battered and deep fried chicken and turkey hearts (yum yum) [but not anywhere close to the fries].

I have never fed them, the hearts, in one of my fish recipes as getting the viscera, a sinew, and the fat off them was virtually impossible.

TR