Loaches Online Forum

Sorry to be a pest but I now have 4 small clown loaches roughly 1.5in ea in a 90g with about an 8in Plec and 6in Twig. The clowns hide all day and other than waking up at very early hours, I never see them and then with the lack of light, only hope they are healthy. I am finding my 90g looks like a totally uninhabited tank. I've read it's going to take some time for the clowns to grow. Are there any fish you can suggest to make the tank interesting in the interim. I can always buy another tank to take some smaller fish out at a later time.

Thx,
Shar

if i was you i'd pickup some midwater and surface fish the choice is yours and endless,
mid water you have rainbows, barbs, rasboras and more.

top fish danios, some live-bearers, african butterfly fish, hatchet characins.

as i said the choice is yours, but if your unsure post on here for a consensus.

mick

Plus having those other fish will provide "dither fish" to make your clowns feel more secure. Mine are out all the time, because they see the danios and tetras out and figure there's no danger.

Do you have a picture of your tank?

I looked at the african butterfly fish yesterday and was concerned cause my clowns are still small. On the internet, they said that the butterflies will eat small fish? and the clowns are still small. My problem is that with the plec and twig, as well as the clowns...they are all substrate eating fish. I need fish that work in the other layers...thts why I thought of the butterfly but when I heard they ate guppies...my clowns aren't that much bigger? 1.5in...is that safe...if I do tetras, they fit into the clowns mouth...maybe...at their small size? I can't do corydora's cause I have too many fish eating from the substrate? I need to know what is mid and top range that either my clowns or the introduction of another fish, wont be feeder fish for the existing aquarium....non agressive, and that I need to make sure whatever I get, they can't fit into the clown loaches mouth? Thank you for advising that if I get other fish into the tank...maybe all the clowns will come out of the bog wood. Thx

....more Clowns. Get a bigger one than you have now to replace the leader. The Clowns follow the Alpha. They have a quiet leader now probably. I have had many with different personalities. Barbs keep them up and at attention also. Butterflies are not a problem....but do jump and like hard water. Clowns will not eat any other fish no matter how small in my experiance.

Since I put the other two clowns into the 90 gal., I haven't been able to watch an alpha male but hopefully, they are all healthy. In the middle of the night, I count fish shadows only. As a newbie, I don't really know what dither fish are. Are they like tetras? My clowns are coming on 5 and 6 months old. I saw some clowns at Big Al's that maybe a half inch larger than mine. Would that work at the alpha...and does it need to be female or male? Afraid the 90 gal. is beyond my experience but needed to get it for my common pl*c. I just would like to enjoy that size of tank with fish swimming. Your information and experience is well appreciated.

Shar

Sorry but I have another question...in addition to my first one. I have 2 yoyo's in my ten gal. tank that have gotten rid of my snail problem...it was a problem...like 20 to 30 new ones daily...anyhow, they got rid of that one. I thought I had checked the internet enough before buying them and my clowns that they got along well. I should have asked this forum first. My intentions were that after I put my two clowns in with the two in the 90g, I would then put the yoyos in. My short experience with the yoyos is that they eat all the food quickly and are so excited about food that they butt every other fish out of their way. My clowns are far more docile and am apprehensive of merging the two loach species. After almost 6 months of yoyo domination, my glass catfish have finally figured out that the yoyos aren't there to hurt them and are going after the food too. But with the clowns, I don't think I should introduce them into the 90g cause they go after what they want and I think the clowns are afraid to do that? Pls adv.

Shar

I can only give you my experiences. I am a newbie like you.

I have 3 African Butterflies, and I am a huge fan. They don't bother any of my fish, except very small fry. I have lots of floating plants and this protects the fry until I move them to the fry tank, and the African Butterflies lounge in the plants, but it slows down their fry hunting. I have had 1" clowns, Neons, cardinals with my Africans and there are no problems. The clowns never bothered the tetras and the Africans don't bother anyone. If you are worried buy small 2-3" Africans that grow with your Clowns. But remember the bottom jaw goes straight down, so their mouth is bigger than it looks. Still mine, have never bothered another fish. The hardest thing is having floating food for the Butterflies, because they only eat floating food. Mine eat everything that floats: freeze dried shrimp, plankton, blood worms, flake, frozen blood worms that I carefully float on the water. One cool thing they do is lounge in the plants on the side of the tank with low flow. But when I start to feed the fish in the tank, all three Africans line up in the flow and wait for the water to push the food to them, and they snap it up. Mine have never lept out of the tank, but I keep it very tightly shut.

I have yoyos, clowns, darios, zebras, tigers, and Kubotai together in one large tank. They all get along well. All fish are between 1-4". I watch the tigers very closely, and they will be relocated at first sign of aggression. So far there is none, but if you decide to get tigers, don't mix them with the rest of these peaceful loaches. None of the loaches seem to care if a loach is big or small. They are all accepted into this large mixed herd. My small ones tend to hang out together though. I have 3 1" Clowns, 1 1" Zebra and a 1" Yoyo that hang together even though there are 4 more clowns, 6 more yoyos and 3 more zebras.

At the top of this forum is a section called glossery, and it is super helpful with terms like "dither fish". Basically the dither fish are fish in the tank to make the loaches feel more comfortable. These are usually schooling fish and if they are out and about doing their normal things, then the loaches figure there are no predators out there to eat them. My small clowns are out all the time. The bigger ones come out to eat and play.

Just bought some hornwort? as a floater plant. My first start. Not sure about purchasing a larger clown...they are at most 1 in. larger than my guys and cost $40. I really like the African Butterfly Fish and was hoping maybe one? should it be 2? But today saw some upside down catfish. Seems like bettas, loaches and catfish are what I'm drawn to. Would an African butterfly get along with not sure how many upside down cats I'd need? Originally, I had thought of buying angel fish to go with the clowns but was worried about size of aquarium...I didn't realize how slow clowns grow and think I may like them cause they swim in the middle. I worry a lot about not overstocking the tank...but every fish I'm looking at is quite small...so maybe as they grow, I can trf some of them?

After spending a few hours on the internet for "dither fish" that I saw at the pet shop, my questions are:

Sunset Platy's - Will the clowns keep their breeding down...I don't intend on breeding.

Black Skirted Tetras - Are they artificially dyed? If I get these and need to transfer them, they would go into a Betta tank...they say that tetras nip fins. If I get Angelfish, I think they would nip at them too.

Neon Rosy Barbs - I read they spend a lot of time at the bottom...I need mid dwellers.

I got really excited seeing:

Black Ghost Knifefish...can he get along with everyone...or am I pushing my limit for the bottom?

Needle Nose Fish - they say it's not a true gar? would they be a threat to the clowns that are still small? and other fish I need to get?

So many fish...not enough tanks...but I do have a big, empty tank right now that it sounds it's going to take years for the clowns to grow into. Even my pl*c has slowed his growth.

I have a bad camera that is always not working but will try to send pictures this week.

Also, I have my 90 gal. at 80 degrees but it goes to 82 degrees...that limits choices to. The tank is 90 gal. in size but I have the top two inches without water and with the substrate at the bottom, it actually works out to only about 70 gal. of water.

Appreciate your help.

Shar

Hi, Once again, I am only telling you my experiences. I have 4 Upside Down Catifsh, and they are lovely, small (4" max, I think) but nocturnal. A minimum of four fish will allow them to feel more secure. Mine are almost always together and rest in plants.

I love my African Butterflies and have no problems with them. Everything I read says 3+ fish. Mine hang out together. They will eat fry, so if you are worried about fry population control, they will keep the numbers down. I can trade my baby fish for fish supplies, so I love it when they have babies. My Africans lived with Clowns and UPSide Down Catfish with no problems.

I have white skirted tetras, and realized later that they are more happily solo when older. They do not school. The white ones are usually the ones dyed, but mine are naturals.

Be careful with the ghosts. They can get huge and require lots of food. Tinman (whose ghost is named Tinman) told me to go with a Brown Ghost because they are smaller. He knows much more than I do. If you want something cool, get an elephant nose. They can be single. Make sure you have a cave just for them.

From what I have read, avoid the Needlenoses. They are predators of fish. I have not owned these, so someone with more experience will need to guide you. If you want top fish, I would do Africans, halfbeaks, hatchets, . . .

Have you considered getting a few Zebra Loaches? Mine hang out with my clowns and they have such a good time together. I have peacock eels, zebra loaches, rummy nose tetras, purple passion Danios, clowns and Cories together, and they get along wonderfully. If you don't have any Cories pick up a small pack of six or so to liven up your tank. They are under appreciated, and beyond cute especially when they wink at you.

Tanja.

Thank you Tanja! Though it's going to take awhile to do all of this...looks like I need more of the floater plant I bought...but think I will get the African Butterflies (3). Still not sure about "dither fish" or Angels...with the dithers, thinking maybe Angels. I want to see if getting more fish will help the clowns...plan on having them for a long time and worried as they "eventually" get bigger that my tank is too small for even 4 full sized clowns(as a newbie, I still can't accept mortality but with they're slow rate of growth, am I concerned for no reason?)...I think I may be able to get a smaller tank...max. 50g. to switch some smaller fish as the clowns grow...but honestly can't see getting a bigger tank as much as I'd like but who knows. Thx for your advise...I won't get needlenose...the elephant nosed one would be fun! at a later date. I really enjoyed watching the upside down catfishes and just not sure about corydora's or the upside down guys...I need fish that swim in the mid to top levels and also some daytime guys. I'm obsessed with making a good home for my clowns in their home...I bought the 90 gal. for my common Pl*c who's not at all common to me. My husband got excited about the Black Ghost Knife. Cause I need some of his help with the 90 gal., I only thought maybe buying a fish he was excited about (I was too but I get excited about so many of them) would help. I sure appreciate your advise but I'm still not out of trouble yet to get my tank set up with fish properly. Promise to try to take pictures as soon as I can.

Thank you,
shar

Check the temperature preferences of the fish you are thinking about. Rosy Barbs for example are a fish for a much cooler tank than Clowns like.

I have Yoyos with the Clowns. The Yoyos do come out the fastest when I drop snails in the tank.
A good dither fish is something that generally moves relatively slowly, perhaps schools. The idea is that a slow moving fish, out in the open is not afraid of predators. A fish like a Danio, always darting around might be darting around like that because of predators, so the shy fish stays in hiding. I have Diamond Tetras in the tank with my clowns. Diamonds are incredibly fast when I want to catch them, but are calm when there is no danger.

Show your husband the Elephant nose. Do a search on Ghost knifes in the search section of this forum to get more info. Tinman has posted pictures of his fish along with the food requirements. I can't remember exactly. I think Tinman (the fish ) eats about $15 a week in worms. I could ahe this completely wrong, maybe it was $3. Hopefully Tinman will pop up.

My eels are out all the time, but then, so are my clowns, darios (queen loaches), yoyos, zebras, . . . I can't gush enough about my eels. They are awesome, inquisitive, friendly, smart, . . . I love them. My mollies, swords, guppies, . . . hang out all over the tank. And there are a few Cories that are midwater swimmers.

My butterflies like to hang in the floating plants (duckweed, hornwort, anachais). I wouldn't call them exciting fish except when they are hunting for food. But I like them and they are really beautiful and elegant. The hatchets are out and about more. They may hang out okay togther. My Upside downs are out during the day, but I know they are the exception to the rule. I sit in front of my tanks at night with a flashlight and watch my fish.
Tanja.

Will check out diamond fish. With the cost of feeding Black Ghost Knifes, think it will be a fish when I make more money...but will still check out Tinmans site...for my husband. Think I may just do the angelfish with all my concerns...still not an absolute at this point and would like some answers to my questions of the variety I saw. . The elephant may be something I can do just cause I like the unusual. Will it conflict with my common pl*c. But it's not going to help me get the clowns out of hiding. Can angelfish be considered dither fish? to make the clowns safe coming out of their hiding spots? Yes, I wake up at 5am to count the clowns in the tank. I can't say if they are healthy or not cause they are only shadows. I think I've accepted that I may need that bigger clown but also am looking at maybe 3 African butterflies, and some sort of "dither fish". Although I bought hornwort (I think) as a floater today, I think I need more for the tank. In addition to that, what wattage of lights are recommended for my tank. Again, I was foolish buying a 90 gal. without understanding all of what is entailed. For whatever it's worth, my Pl*c is very happy even with a cat that bats at him (my cat is only obsessed with Pl*c...none of the other fish in any of the tanks interest him like Pl*c does).

Thx,
Shar

For live plants to thrive in your tank you are looking for at least 1 watt per gallon to a watt and a half minimum, 2 watts or more would be better.
The optimum color of light will be marked 6500K. I use 'Cool White', 'Daylight' and 'Plant and Aquarium' bulbs on my tanks. At least 2 on every tank, but some tanks have 3 or more bulbs. Fluorescent, not incandescent.
If you enjoy DIY projects I found some shop lights that use T-8 bulbs at Home Depot. They have no cover. The narrow box holds 2 bulbs. I used 2 of these fixtures, so 4 bulbs over my 72 gallon bowfront tank. The fixtures I used and the tank are both 4' long. (4 bulbs x 32 watts each is not too far off 2 watts per gallon, a little less)

Over 2 watts per gallon and you are getting into more specific plant requirements such as careful dosing with fertilizer and injecting CO2 with a pressurized system. Under 2 watts per gallon you can get by with bottles of Flourish fertilizers and Excel as a source of carbon.
I have a lot of tanks so I do buy powdered fertilizers and mix my own.

I have found Hornwort thrives in a hard water tank, and melts in soft, acidic water.