Hi!
In 24 hours I have lost 1 skunk and one is currently dying. Long story (relatively) short: I transferred all my skunks to their own tank approx 2 weeks ago. (the filters were not new and completely cycled.) Both sick skunks behave the same way. they come out of theyre hiding place into an open part of the tank and gills are moving like crazy. I have done waterchanges every second day the last week. No Nitrates, temp approx 25C. PH has been an issue last 2 days. When I saw the rapid gill movement yesterday, I checked my PH immediately. And I had a bit of a drop, from 7,2 to approx 6,5 in one night. I raised my KH and within a short time the PH rose to about 8! I know very well that an unstable PH is not good, but at the same time a fall is much worse than an increase. After todays waterchange the PH is 7,5. (BTW: I have located the reason for the unstable PH values: a relatively new piece of wood was introduced a few days ago. When I measured the tank where the wood came from that also showed an unaturally low PH - this tank has no fish in it, so I made the mistake of not measuring the paramaters before moving the wood).
Anyway: The PH is now relatively stable and yet another one is dying. Any suggestions as to what might be going on? Am I on the right track thinking it might be the unstable PH? If so; how well can the skunks tackle a PH around 7,5-8 which it will be if I keep a good KH to stabilize the PH?
Kind regards
Marius Podolski
Skunks dying!
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Skunks dying!
Last edited by tender on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Emma Turner
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- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
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If something happened to some of the bacteria the readings for the various nitrogen products could be all over the board.
Best case is that the bacteria in the filters are doing their job and all is well, but something is making the Skunks unhappy.
Can you keep the pH stable with less carbonates? What is the KH reading when you add that much carbonates?
I had a 29 gallon tank with a substrate that would remove the carbonates. It would hit 0 degrees KH, and pH 6.0. I would add 1 teaspoon (5 ml) baking soda and this would raise the KH to about 2 degrees and the pH to the mid 6s.
Best case is that the bacteria in the filters are doing their job and all is well, but something is making the Skunks unhappy.
Can you keep the pH stable with less carbonates? What is the KH reading when you add that much carbonates?
I had a 29 gallon tank with a substrate that would remove the carbonates. It would hit 0 degrees KH, and pH 6.0. I would add 1 teaspoon (5 ml) baking soda and this would raise the KH to about 2 degrees and the pH to the mid 6s.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I measured the KH now. Result: 4. I have done a small waterchange earlier today. My tap water is close to perfect: PH 7,0. As i live in Norway there is no problem with chloriine or other water-parameter issues straight from the tap. (one of the few good things about this country... the cleanest water in the world 
) My aim is to gradually decrease the PH to 7 simply by changing a small amount of water every day. Somehow I dont think ammonia is the problem, as the first skunk died when PH was low. And as far as I know, ammonia becomes an increased problem when Ph raises to 7,5-8? BTW: the second sick skunk got euthanised this evening 
I really don`t have any idea as to what is going on, and it really frustrates me
) My aim is to gradually decrease the PH to 7 simply by changing a small amount of water every day. Somehow I dont think ammonia is the problem, as the first skunk died when PH was low. And as far as I know, ammonia becomes an increased problem when Ph raises to 7,5-8? BTW: the second sick skunk got euthanised this evening I really don`t have any idea as to what is going on, and it really frustrates me
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Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
I think you should get an ammonia test kit asap, just so that you can at least rule it out. The increased gill movements you described in the first post could point to ammonia poisoning. Between now and getting the water tested for ammonia, increase the aeration as much as possible and I would not feed tonight.
Emma
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
The pH will fluctuate based on the CO2 levels of the water.
- pH will be at it's highest just before the lights go out.
- pH will be at it's lowest in the morning when the lights turn on.
If you test the pH be sure it is at the same time of the day when you make comparisons.
Even if you don't have plants, the microbes and algae in the aquarium can consume CO2 and this will raise the pH of the water. Some microbes and algae will have the opposite effect when the lights are off, they consume oxygen and release CO2.
If there isn't enough CO2 for the microbes and algae, then they'll start to consume the carbon from the water's kH.
- Changes in pH due to CO2 fluctuations will not harm fish in any way.
- Changes in pH due to sudden changes in the kH can be harmful to fish.
Keep an eye on the kH for now. If kH drops, you might need to lower the lighting frequency, or increase the water changes, or keep the substrate/ filters cleaner. There is probably a microbial imbalance somewhere.
There may be other solutions that work also.
RTR has written a great article that touches the basics of an aquariums microbial life -
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/foru ... ic=10741.0
- pH will be at it's highest just before the lights go out.
- pH will be at it's lowest in the morning when the lights turn on.
If you test the pH be sure it is at the same time of the day when you make comparisons.
Even if you don't have plants, the microbes and algae in the aquarium can consume CO2 and this will raise the pH of the water. Some microbes and algae will have the opposite effect when the lights are off, they consume oxygen and release CO2.
If there isn't enough CO2 for the microbes and algae, then they'll start to consume the carbon from the water's kH.
- Changes in pH due to CO2 fluctuations will not harm fish in any way.
- Changes in pH due to sudden changes in the kH can be harmful to fish.
Keep an eye on the kH for now. If kH drops, you might need to lower the lighting frequency, or increase the water changes, or keep the substrate/ filters cleaner. There is probably a microbial imbalance somewhere.
There may be other solutions that work also.
RTR has written a great article that touches the basics of an aquariums microbial life -
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/foru ... ic=10741.0
I have quite subdued lighting in this tank. There are some plants in there.
I added the KH after the first skunk died, as I figured I needed to raise the PH when I realized the sudden drop. As KH is 3 and PH is 7 in my tap water I have never had the need to adjust this previously. Yet, the second skunk died 24h after I took these measures and PH had settled around 7,5. I`ll keep on monitoring the thank and hopefully the deaths will stop.
Thanks for the help, so far.
Kind regards
Marius
I added the KH after the first skunk died, as I figured I needed to raise the PH when I realized the sudden drop. As KH is 3 and PH is 7 in my tap water I have never had the need to adjust this previously. Yet, the second skunk died 24h after I took these measures and PH had settled around 7,5. I`ll keep on monitoring the thank and hopefully the deaths will stop.
Thanks for the help, so far.
Kind regards
Marius
Ammonium and other test-results
Hi again!
I have tested the tank for ammonium and other things. Here are the results:
Temp - 24
PH - approx 7,8 Tetra test shows a little higher than 7,5 but lower than 8
KH - 4
Nitrites - 0
Ammonium: Here I`m a bit uncertain. The test is Red Sea Max it shows a total of 0,25. According to the chart on the instructions this would mean approx 0,06 ppm toxic ammonium. based on temp and PH.Does this sound correct? (I have never actually used this test before, so I`m a bit uncertain as to how to read of the chart in the manual, my math skills were never very good)
Does this make any more sense. (No more dead skunks, yet)
kind regards
Marius
I have tested the tank for ammonium and other things. Here are the results:
Temp - 24
PH - approx 7,8 Tetra test shows a little higher than 7,5 but lower than 8
KH - 4
Nitrites - 0
Ammonium: Here I`m a bit uncertain. The test is Red Sea Max it shows a total of 0,25. According to the chart on the instructions this would mean approx 0,06 ppm toxic ammonium. based on temp and PH.Does this sound correct? (I have never actually used this test before, so I`m a bit uncertain as to how to read of the chart in the manual, my math skills were never very good)
Does this make any more sense. (No more dead skunks, yet)
kind regards
Marius
the pH number is just a result of the kH and CO2 level. Many people who inject CO2 in there systems monitor the kH and pH to determine the CO2 levels. pH alone is not a good indicator of water quality. Nitrates and TDS would be a better things to monitor.
In some cases phosphates will screw with the pH results also.
Phosphates I don't understand yet. I think Phosphates have the ability to change from acid to base. The ORP (Oxygen Reduction Potential) content of the water might have something to do with it, but I'm not even sure how it works in a freshwater system.
In some cases phosphates will screw with the pH results also.
Phosphates I don't understand yet. I think Phosphates have the ability to change from acid to base. The ORP (Oxygen Reduction Potential) content of the water might have something to do with it, but I'm not even sure how it works in a freshwater system.
Ammonia can be present in either of 2 forms. NH4, Ammonium is generally present when the pH is acidic, and NH3, ammonia, is generally present when the pH is alkaline. There is not a hard and fast line of where one stops and the other starts, but more like a sliding scale.
It is not unknown for ammonia (either form) to show up when a tank is moved. The bacteria are disturbed and cannot handle quite so much ammonia, and the fish in their stress create more ammonia than normal.
This may or may not be followed by a minor spike in Nitrite.
What I would do at this point:
Do water changes with a little baking soda added to maintain a stable KH. 3 degrees is fine.
Use a dechlorinator that says it locks up ammonia. I know you said the water does not have chlorine or chloramine, but is a product like Prime or Ammo-Lok available?
Keep testing the water with the goal of keeping the ammonia (all sorts) under .25 ppm.
If nitrite shows up do enough water changes to keep it under 1 ppm, and add a trace of salt (sodium chloride) to the tank to combat Brown Blood Disease. The dose is 1 teaspoon (5 ml) per 20 American gallons (about 80 liters). This is a low dose and is tolerated by even salt-intolerant fish, but when the nitrite no longer tests positive, then quit adding salt.
It is not unknown for ammonia (either form) to show up when a tank is moved. The bacteria are disturbed and cannot handle quite so much ammonia, and the fish in their stress create more ammonia than normal.
This may or may not be followed by a minor spike in Nitrite.
What I would do at this point:
Do water changes with a little baking soda added to maintain a stable KH. 3 degrees is fine.
Use a dechlorinator that says it locks up ammonia. I know you said the water does not have chlorine or chloramine, but is a product like Prime or Ammo-Lok available?
Keep testing the water with the goal of keeping the ammonia (all sorts) under .25 ppm.
If nitrite shows up do enough water changes to keep it under 1 ppm, and add a trace of salt (sodium chloride) to the tank to combat Brown Blood Disease. The dose is 1 teaspoon (5 ml) per 20 American gallons (about 80 liters). This is a low dose and is tolerated by even salt-intolerant fish, but when the nitrite no longer tests positive, then quit adding salt.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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