Powerhead or HOB Filter?

[ey]

I was thinking of adding another AquaClear 70 HOB Filter to my 95g tank but was not sure if I should add a larger one (AquaClear 110) or if I should add a Powerhead instead?

I already have an existing AquaClear 70 HOB running in the tank, along with a canister filter. The tank is starting to get dirty a lot quicker with the loaches eating and pooping so regularly now (I need to feed less! Though I don't overfeed)

Otherwise I was considering a Hagen Aquaclear 50 Powerhead instead, since the product info page says that it:

"Adding a powerhead to an undergravel system increases water flow through a gravel substrate and improves its filtering efficiency. It also oxygenates water and, in the process, provides needed oxygen to colonies of beneficial bacteria in the gravel which optimizes their biological filtration capabilities."

This sounds quite beneficial for the loaches but I wasn't sure if adding another AquaClear 70 HOB and the AquaClear 50 Powerhead.

Also, I wasn't sure what size powerhead I should be getting for my 95g tank, the details on the AquaClear 50 Powerhead is as follows:
Output without air: 990 litres per hour
Output with air: 946 litres per hour
Reverse Flow: 662 litres per hour

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Currently, the only water flow is provided by the water dropping from the HOB, the spray bars from the canister filter outlet pipe and a large air stone from air pump. The clowns seem to enjoy it as it is at the moment, so I'm not sure if adding an air pump will make them happier or sadder, if that makes sense?

Thanks

[Diana]

If you have more debris building up then get an actual filter. A powerhead with a sponge over the intake may help some, but that is too large a tank for a sponge filter to handle.

Do not believe the literature about the powerhead capacity. Have a look here at Loaches for a DIY way to increase the flow, but even then it really won't quite reach the stated amounts.

I have Aquaclear 110 filters on my 45 gallon tanks. It may be the best one to add to your current set up.

I have 2 power heads on my 125 gallon (6' long) tank. I have the largest Aquaclear powerhead (the name/number has changed- it was an 802 I think) And the largest Koralia power head. The Aquaclear has a small sponge over it, and it plugs up very fast.
For filtration I have a Fluval 404 and a sump. I need to rearrange the media in the sump for better filtration.

As for the quote from the Aquaclear PH about Under Gravel Filters:
An undergravel filter was dreamed up by someone who realized that gravel had a fair amount of surface area but not enough oxygenation to grow a really big, thriving colony of nitrifying bacteria. They figured out that by lifting up the gravel on plates and sucking the water out from under the plates then more water would flow through the gravel, bringing more oxygen to the bacteria. This is indeed true, it works. More bacteria will grow on gravel with under gravel plates. More bacteria will also grow on all the filter media in any filter: canister, HOB, internal, sponge...and these others are easier to clean. The ugf system was created before today's high quality filters were created.
You can use an air bubbler system to gently increase the water flow through the gravel, or a power head to greatly increase the water flow. Either way the debris in the tank also gets lodged into the gravel. Debris will stop the water flow, and interrupt the oxygenation in the gravel.
The other way of running an under gravel system is to pump water down the tubes and up through the gravel. The theory being that the upwelling of water will keep the debris in suspension until it is picked up by a filter and removed. Running the Aquaclear Power head in the reverse mode does not work well at all. When I used the RUGF (reverse under gravel filter) system I ran the power heads in the forward direction and aimed the outlet down the tubes from the ugf plates. It still did not work well, and the plants did not grow well over the plates, either. I got rid of all the under gravel plates. They work well for organizing the media in sumps, though.

[ey]

If you have more debris building up then get an actual filter. A powerhead with a sponge over the intake may help some, but that is too large a tank for a sponge filter to handle.

Do not believe the literature about the powerhead capacity. Have a look here at Loaches for a DIY way to increase the flow, but even then it really won't quite reach the stated amounts.

I have Aquaclear 110 filters on my 45 gallon tanks. It may be the best one to add to your current set up.

I have 2 power heads on my 125 gallon (6' long) tank. I have the largest Aquaclear powerhead (the name/number has changed- it was an 802 I think) And the largest Koralia power head. The Aquaclear has a small sponge over it, and it plugs up very fast.
For filtration I have a Fluval 404 and a sump. I need to rearrange the media in the sump for better filtration.

As for the quote from the Aquaclear PH about Under Gravel Filters:
An undergravel filter was dreamed up by someone who realized that gravel had a fair amount of surface area but not enough oxygenation to grow a really big, thriving colony of nitrifying bacteria. They figured out that by lifting up the gravel on plates and sucking the water out from under the plates then more water would flow through the gravel, bringing more oxygen to the bacteria. This is indeed true, it works. More bacteria will grow on gravel with under gravel plates. More bacteria will also grow on all the filter media in any filter: canister, HOB, internal, sponge...and these others are easier to clean. The ugf system was created before today's high quality filters were created.
You can use an air bubbler system to gently increase the water flow through the gravel, or a power head to greatly increase the water flow. Either way the debris in the tank also gets lodged into the gravel. Debris will stop the water flow, and interrupt the oxygenation in the gravel.
The other way of running an under gravel system is to pump water down the tubes and up through the gravel. The theory being that the upwelling of water will keep the debris in suspension until it is picked up by a filter and removed. Running the Aquaclear Power head in the reverse mode does not work well at all. When I used the RUGF (reverse under gravel filter) system I ran the power heads in the forward direction and aimed the outlet down the tubes from the ugf plates. It still did not work well, and the plants did not grow well over the plates, either. I got rid of all the under gravel plates. They work well for organizing the media in sumps, though.

Diana,

Since you have AquaClear 802 (70) Powerhead and the Koralia powerhead, I was wondering which one you preferred? Which produces better water movement?

From the research I've done (mainly based on reading older threads on them here), it seems the AC802 powerhead can also double up as a powerhead and filter whereas the Koarlia cannot.

If I was looking to create some water movement for the loaches, which would be best?

The price difference varies greatly here in Oz though, with;

- Koralia 4 being $230 AUD
- AquaClear70 (802) $61 AUD

However, the Koralia only consumes 11W with a flow rate of 4600L/Hr whereas the AquaClear70 consumes 21W - flow rate 1514L/Hr.

You mentioned that your AC802 plugs up very fast, does the Koralia plug up quickly also?

I'm still unsure which one of the two to get as I have been reading good things about both, but will lean towards whichever brand that is safer for the loaches (i.e. prevent them from getting injured or killed).

[Diana]

- Koralia 4 being $230 AUD
- AquaClear70 (802) $61 AUD

I have been paying about $50 for the Koralia 4, and just this weekend paid $40 for a Koralia 3.
Seeing the comparison of water movement per watt, though you can easily figure out if it would be worth while paying more, and getting more water movement per watt, and paying less for the electric bill. You would be getting about 3x the water movement for 1/2 the electricity. If you bought 3 Aquaclears you would still not be paying as much as for one Koralia (but close), but you would have a higher electric bill.

I find the Koralia produces a more spread out flow, plenty of water movement, but is dissipates quicker. Even my Discus can hang out a foot from the Koralia, (partially hidden by a log, I'll admit) (I have one Discus in my 125 that will not play well with others) Koralias have a large intake area that does not plug up easily. I have cleaned the Koralias (I have 3 running right now, and will install the new one soon) less than once a week, and then I only pull off the largest pieces of dead leaves. Whatever comes off the easiest. I can see an easy way to add a sponge filter over it, but so far I have these pumps on tanks with large, strong fish, and I do not feel I need to do this.

The Aquaclear power heads provide a much stronger, more directed blast of water. The intake is smaller, and designed to sit on top of the up-tubes from an under gravel system. They are easy to put a sponge filter over, and this is very necessary, as they plug up SO fast! and even strong fish can get caught by them.

I use power heads in several ways (though no more UGF or RUGF).
In my 125 gallon (6' long) I have an Aquaclear aimed from the West end, close to the back toward the front of the tank, and toward the East. The water hits just about the middle front of the tank, and the water movement can be seen in the plants waving just about at the farthest East end of the tank. The strong water flow encourages the fish to come out to the front and play around where they can be seen. I have seen my Loaches surfing, and riding the current, then fighting their way 'upstream' and then relaxing and riding it back downstream. SUre looks like fun!
I have a lot of rocks and some big roots in the tank, and the Koralia is somewhat hidden behind the roots, at the East end of the tank. It is aimed along the back of the tank, and the water movement escapes through the spaces in the roots. I cannot really say that I see the effects of the Koralia at the West end of the tank. It may well be spread out and weakened by all the roots.
The Aquaclear has an attachment to take advantage of the venturi effect, and I am using this as part of the self-starting siphon that is part of the sump system on this tank.
The other tanks with the Koralias are somewhat similar placement (relatively low, at one end) but aimed toward the front of the tank. They are adding plenty of water movement, but not so strong that the substrate is getting moved around. One of these tanks has several Discus. When these fish get too close (about 8") I can see them fighting the water flow, but they easily move out of the strongest flow area, and are comfortable just out of the main flow.

[ey]

Diana,

After doing a search on the archived posts on the forums here, I noticed that most of the hobbyists in the US were paying around the same price as you with the Koralia 3 & 4.

In terms of water movement per watt and efficiency, Koralia is definitely the way to go so I think that is what I will also stick with. I did a quick search on ebay and found an online reputable seller (who owns a LFS in OC, LA) selling the Koralia 3 for $29US + $33US shipping and the Koralia 4 for $39US and $42US shipping. Despite the relative steep shipping cost and the weak AUD, it is still much cheaper getting it online than over here. The only concern would be warranty, and if the powerhead arrives damaged.

For the new tank, I think Koralia will provide what I’m after, i.e. producing more spread out water flow and water movement which dissipates quicker. This gives the loaches that want the movement to swim around that area and for all other fish that prefers calmer water to steer clear from the area where the Koralia is. I also noticed some hobbyists only turn on their powerheads for a few hours a day, so I was surprised to read that not all people leave their powerheads on 24/7.

I can also see advantages in the Aquaclear, such as acting as a secondary filter when you place the quick filter cartridge over the powerhead. Also the strong water flow it potentially generates to encourage clowns to come out and ‘surf’ as is the case in your situation.

I guess there is also nothing wrong with having one Koralia 4 and one AC70, but I might just get a Koralia 4 first and see how it goes before getting the AC70, since the Koralia 4 is more energy efficient.

My final concern was if the added powerhead/s will provide additional oxygen levels for the loaches in the much larger tank that they will be moved to? I will read the article on oxygen levels again to check.

[Diana]

Water exchanges gases (O2, CO2 and other gases) at the water-air interface. When you can make more water touch the air then there will be more gas exchange. The more water you can lift from the bottom (presumed to have more CO2 and less O2) to contact the surface then the more CO2 you are getting rid of and the more O2 the water will pick up. It is the difference in concentration that helps the water to pick up more O2, and give up more CO2.

The most efficient pump for increasing water contacting the surface is actually a pump that picks up water off the floor of the tank and shoots it straight up, then the water ripples across the surface in widening circles. It does not need to splash.

You are copying a slice of this sort of action when you set up a pump (power head, filter outlet, other) in a way that makes some ripples on the surface, and lifts water from the lower areas of the tank. The more water movement (gallons or liters per hour) the better. The best water movement will be gentle ripples on the surface. You might have to angle the power head in different ways to get the optimum set up.

[chefkeith]

The Quick filters pick up very fine particulates. I use the quick filters on two power heads for polishing the water and to provide safety for small snails, shrimp, and fry. I need to change the quick filter pads about every 2nd or 3rd day. I have 20+ quick filter pads in rotation so I only have to clean them about once per month.

I don't use Aquaclear powerheads though. They are too weak for my purposes. I use a RIO+ 2100 pump that is 692 gph/37 watts and a Quite One 4000 that is 1017 gph/50 watts. The Quick Filters can fit both of these pumps.

One advantage of using the Quick Filter pads is that you'll have to do less maintenance to all the other filters. The disadvantage is that you'll be constantly cleaning those quick filter pads if you don't have a large supply of them. (I have 28 of them.)

Cleaning the pads isn't easy either. To get them clean, I rinse them off, then soak them in bleach water for about a week, then I rinse them off again, and then rinse them again in some water treated with dechlorinater.

I use a Korolia 3 pump in my rivertank also, but there are no shrimp, snails, or fry in that tank either. I have this pump on a timer and it runs for only about 8 hours per day, from noon to 8pm. If the fish ever do spawn and have fry, I'm hoping I'll see the fry before the pump turns on and any damage is done.