Upgrading to a 6x2x2 from a custom 4 ft tank

[ey]

I currently have the fish listed below in my 95g (custom 4 ft) tank, which I believe is overstocked and the need for an upgrade to a larger tank is clear, I'm just wondering if a 6x2x2 is sufficient for at least a few years?

- 18 clown loaches (10 are 2", with the other 8 varying between 3"-5", so there is still a fair bit of growing left given the right environment)
- 12 yoyo loaches (2"-2.5" each)
- 18 rummynoses
- 12 cardinals
- 3 juvenile bristlenoses (1.5" each)

I am running an AquaOne 1200 canister filter, a Eheim 2217 and an AquaClear 70 HOB. The tank has been established for 2.5 years.

Water parameters have consistently been:
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
15 Nitrate
6.6 pH

I used to do two 30% water changes (gravel vacuum) per week, but since adding more clowns and yoyos to the tank over the past few months, I have had to perform 30% water changes every second day, hence why the need of a larger tank arose.

Does anyone know of any good sources on the internet for articles on transferring fish from one tank to the other without causing too much stress? I remember reading an article somewhere a long time ago but cannot seem to find it now.

I plan on transferring them by taking out all the fish along with the ornaments and gravel and temporarily storing them in a large 60L container for the 1-2 hours required to move the 6x2x2 in and setting it up. Obviously, I'll need to keep at least one of the filters and a heater running in the 60L container that the fish are kept in. My worry is that I cannot transfer all the water from the 4 ft tank to the 6 ft tank so when it comes to filling up the 6x2x2 with water, majority of this will be new water and not the established water.

If I do go ahead with the upgrade, would the exisitng filtration be sufficient or would I need to add another canister filter? I'm guessing I will definitely need another canister, and was not sure which one would be best based on my tank stocking; I was deciding between the Eheim 2260 (classic) or the Eheim Professional III 2078 or 2080.

I also have a smaller 29g tank with 6 bronze cories, 8 dwarf loaches, 6 black neons, I wish to consolidate that this into the new 6x2x2 tank, would it be better to transfer these fish into the existing 4 ft tank NOW and then transferring them along with all the other fish in the 4 ft once I set up the 6x2x2?

Any suggestions would be greately appreciated.

[Diana]

Sounds like a great improvement!

Your plan to move fish is basically right. Keep the fish in a darkened container for less stress. Maintain temperature and water movement for oxygen. When it is time to add the fish back to the tank do not add this water. Many fish produce stress hormones and extra ammonia while under stress, and you do not need to add this to the new tank.

Do not worry about saving too much water. Keep up your frequent water changes until the day of the move and the tank water will be so similar to the tap water that it will not be too stressful to the fish.

Save all possible nitrifying bacteria, and you might try to find either Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tims The One and Only. These two products have the actual correct species of nitrifying bacteria. This will boost the population, just in case of some loss in transferring.

The filters you have may be enough as far as filtration goes but will not be enough as far as water movement. I would add at least 2 Koralia #4 power heads, 1200 gph each more of water movement. Most of the fish you have prefer more water movement. They few that prefer less water movement can find places near plants or driftwood where the water movement suits them.

[LeStat]

Frequent water changes in the run up to the change is a good plan, I once moved my 5x2x2 tank into a different room & siphoned 50% of the water into cannisters which I emptied into my bath (making sure it was free from contaniments). It was then very easy to siphone the water straight from the bath (upstairs) back into the tank once moved.

[chefkeith]

You are going to need more than 1 of those 60l containers. 60l is not nearly large enough for all those fish. I'd get about 4 of those 60l containers.

container 1 -put all the clowns.
container 2- put all the yoyo's
container 3- put the rest of the fish
container 4- put the gravel and ornaments.

At least that's what I'd do.

Extra containers or tanks are great to have for emergencies anyways.

[Diana]

cheifkeith has a very good point. 60l is too small for all those fish.

Another reason for not saving the water that the fish are temporarily stored in is that Loaches produce excess slime coat when stressed, and this seems to have killed other fish that are in the same container.

As for whether to add the fish from the 29 now or later, I would suggest later. Right now they are in a fully cycled tank and by keeping this tank cycled you will have that much more bacteria to add to the new tank. Just run the filter from this tank on the new tank when you move these fish over.

[ey]

Thanks Diana, chefkeith and LeStat for the suggestions and encouragement! I had wanted to upgrade for a while now but have not had a chance to do so due to time and budget constraints.

I went to find out the cost of 7x2x2 and 8x2x2 as I know a longer tank will be beneficial to the loaches in the long run, plus this should last me for 10 years whereas the laoches could potentially grow out of a 6x2x2. The cost was significantly higher for the 7 and 8 footers, and there wont be enough space to fit it (7 foot will just barely fit).

Sounds like a great improvement!

Your plan to move fish is basically right. Keep the fish in a darkened container for less stress. Maintain temperature and water movement for oxygen. When it is time to add the fish back to the tank do not add this water. Many fish produce stress hormones and extra ammonia while under stress, and you do not need to add this to the new tank.

Do not worry about saving too much water. Keep up your frequent water changes until the day of the move and the tank water will be so similar to the tap water that it will not be too stressful to the fish.

Save all possible nitrifying bacteria, and you might try to find either Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tims The One and Only. These two products have the actual correct species of nitrifying bacteria. This will boost the population, just in case of some loss in transferring.

The filters you have may be enough as far as filtration goes but will not be enough as far as water movement. I would add at least 2 Koralia #4 power heads, 1200 gph each more of water movement. Most of the fish you have prefer more water movement. They few that prefer less water movement can find places near plants or driftwood where the water movement suits them.

The problem re: the container is; I'm planning to use those storage container boxes and they are clear pastic so wont be very dark for the fish, will this be a problem? I agree with you in regards to not adding the same water that the fish will be kept in, as ammonia will inevitably be present. I just remember when I bought a large clown that by the time I took it home, the LFS water had an ammonia reading of 2!

How much water will I need to save from the old tank to the new tank? If I do use 4 containers, the water from these 4 containers wont be transferred to the big tank, so should I use a separate container just for storing the old tank water? The problem is, by the time I move the new tank and get it set up with the filters, it will take at least 1 hour and by then, would the old tank water lose all its beneficial bacteria?

I will look for the two products you mentioned (Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tims The One and Only) but I don't remember seeing them here. Would the "Cycle" product or Sera product for detoxifying nitrite/ammonia and creating bacteria be just as good? I don't remember what the Sera product was called.

Changing the water frequently up until the day of transfer is great idea, I'm hoping there will be plenty of bacteria absorbed in the gravel.

[ey]

I already have 3 of the 60L containers and am thinking of getting 1 or 2 more. The problem with separating the fish into the containers is that I will need to set up one filter container. Will the fish be OK if I kept them in the container with aeration and a heater for 1-2 hours, but without filtration? Or would it be much better to put one filter in each of the containers?

You are going to need more than 1 of those 60l containers. 60l is not nearly large enough for all those fish. I'd get about 4 of those 60l containers.

container 1 -put all the clowns.
container 2- put all the yoyo's
container 3- put the rest of the fish
container 4- put the gravel and ornaments.

At least that's what I'd do.

Extra containers or tanks are great to have for emergencies anyways.

[Diana]

Filtration is not required at all.
Water movement is the key: Water where it touches the air is where CO2 and O2 are exchanged. Anything that improves the water movement is what you are looking for.
Bubblers will do this by increasing the water movement at the surface. The bubbles in the water do so close to nothing they can be ignored: no real gas exchange happens in the second or so it takes an air bubble to rise. As it is rising it is dragging some water with it increasing circulation, and when it bursts at the surface it creates more wave action.

[Laura]

When I moved my fish, I threw a towel on top of the bucket - it kept it darker and stopped any jumpers. That may work for your clear tubs too.

[chefkeith]

Don't feed the fish 24-48 hours prior to moving them. No filters in the container would be necessary, but it would help.

Clear containers are fine. Laura's advice is real good though. Covering the containers with a blanket would help.

If the aquarium water is of high quality, then just use that in the plastic containers You don't want the fish to have to re-acclimate to new water conditions each time they are moved.

If the aquarium was well established, there should be a delicate balance of microbial life in the aquarium water. Good stuff like plankton, algae, and other microscopic critters may be in the water that you may want to keep. If that's the case, I'd try to keep as much of the aquarium water as you can. Upsetting the microbial balance can cause algae and bacterial blooms, cloudy water, and other things that come with new tanks. If you have pleco's, SAE's, snails, shrimp, or fry in the aquarium, they'll want this microbial stuff in the water also. That aquarium water helps the circle of life.

The beneficial nitrification bacteria is not free floating in the water though, it's attached to the filter media, the ornaments, and the gravel. So keep the filters running in the containers how ever you like.

[ey]

Filtration is not required at all.
Water movement is the key: Water where it touches the air is where CO2 and O2 are exchanged. Anything that improves the water movement is what you are looking for.
Bubblers will do this by increasing the water movement at the surface. The bubbles in the water do so close to nothing they can be ignored: no real gas exchange happens in the second or so it takes an air bubble to rise. As it is rising it is dragging some water with it increasing circulation, and when it bursts at the surface it creates more wave action.

So water movement is more important than filtration? Would an air stone/pump be sufficient for the fish for an hour?

If the canister filters are not running for 1-2 hours, would it lose a lot of its beneficial bacteria?

[ey]

When I moved my fish, I threw a towel on top of the bucket - it kept it darker and stopped any jumpers. That may work for your clear tubs too.

That's a great idea Laura, thanks for the suggestion!

[ey]

Don't feed the fish 24-48 hours prior to moving them. No filters in the container would be necessary, but it would help.

Clear containers are fine. Laura's advice is real good though. Covering the containers with a blanket would help.

If the aquarium water is of high quality, then just use that in the plastic containers You don't want the fish to have to re-acclimate to new water conditions each time they are moved.

If the aquarium was well established, there should be a delicate balance of microbial life in the aquarium water. Good stuff like plankton, algae, and other microscopic critters may be in the water that you may want to keep. If that's the case, I'd try to keep as much of the aquarium water as you can. Upsetting the microbial balance can cause algae and bacterial blooms, cloudy water, and other things that come with new tanks. If you have pleco's, SAE's, snails, shrimp, or fry in the aquarium, they'll want this microbial stuff in the water also. That aquarium water helps the circle of life.

The beneficial nitrification bacteria is not free floating in the water though, it's attached to the filter media, the ornaments, and the gravel. So keep the filters running in the containers how ever you like.

Would the fish be OK if I don't feed them 24-48 hours before the transfer? I have been feeding them daily and only fast them one day a month. What is the rationale behind not feeding them before the transfer? Is this because it reduces the waste the loaches would produce whilst kept in the container?

If I have the lids for the containers, would it be better to put the lid on the container as well? Not sure what impact this will have in relation to oxygen.

If I took the aquarium water out and stored it in a large bucket, separate from the fish, would I still be able to put this water into the new tank once it is set up? Bear in mind it could take 1 hour to do so, so the water would be without filtration for an hour, would the water turn bad?

If I don't keep the filters running during the transition, would all the bacteria die off?

Finally, is there a probable risk that the loaches may get ich during the move? They have not had ich but could they get it if they get stressed during the move?

[mickthefish]

you guessed the reason for not feeding them, i'd upm your fasting to at least once a week, it does do the fish good as they get to used to food being thrown at them and sometimes you'll see them take some but not all you put in for them.
the filter should be ok for an hour or two, but the quicker you can get it running again the more bacteria will be saved.

mick

[Diana]

There is a garbage can called the Rubbermaid Brute (USA). Holds 32 gallons, and wheels are available. If you get at least one of these you will be saving quite a bit of the original water. Useful for water changes later, too. As noted above the water does not contain nitrifying bacteria. Most of the bottled bacteria stuff does not contain nitrifying bacteria, either. Do not waste your money. Look for Nitrospiros sp.

Holding water still for an hour or two will not make it go bad.
Holding fish in small containers for an hour or two you start to worry about the build up of CO2 and the lack of O2 in their water. You need more air in the container, not so much water. If these were 5 gallon buckets I would say maximum of 2 gallons of water, and put the lid on. You could put a little more water in there and run a bubbler.

Temperature is important. The stress of the move, combined with chilling may well bring on Ich.
To reduce some of the results of stress you might add either a little salt to the water, such as 1-2 teaspoons per 20 gallons or else use a product called Stress Coat.
Another method that helps is to use a combination of Amquel Plus and Nov-Aqua. Just a few drops. Amquel Plus will help neutralize the nitrogen products and Nov Aqua may help with stress.

Nitrifying bacteria in the filters will be fine for an hour or so. If you think it will be longer (and it probably will be longer, unless you have some experienced help) then set up the filters to run. I use a storage bin with flat sides (square or rectangular storage bins work well) and can get several filters running with maybe 10-15 gallons of water. HOBs can hang on the flat sides, and canisters' tubing can be clipped to the sides. If you do not want to actually run the filters, but are still concerned about the nitrifying bacteria you can simply dump all the media into such a container. Cover the container, these bacteria do better with less light. Tank decor can go in such a container, too, though the amount of bacteria on a smooth ceramic mermaid is pretty small, a nice chunk of driftwood would be biologically very active and well worth keeping wet.