All experienced fishkeepers research help wanted

[crazy]

I'm studying scavenging of decaying remains by all underwater lifeforms, and whilst my research is based in England I'm just looking for stories, texts references, really anything, will fish eat dead people is the general question, and do they do it fast. Possible not the best site, but with the amount of knowledge out there I'm sure someone knows something.
I'm a forensic archaeologist just in case anyone worries as to why I want to know about dead bodies.

[Martin Thoene]

Interesting thought crazy. I did a bit of Googling.

Found this USAF air crash investigation protocols and Aviation Pathology document. You would probably find it of interest anyway, but the bit to look at is that on drowning. No detail, but.....

http://wwwsam.brooks.af.mil/af/files/fs ... er_15.html

I found other references about marine life predation on jumpers from the Golden Gate Bridge, but just mentions, no details. Nice graphic description of injuries when you hit the water though As an ex-EMT, I found it of interest.

You can always bring something like this up on the Off Topic Forum....because really it is

Martin.

[Mark in Vancouver]

My god, that's an interesting post!

Wow - that's good! Nice field of research, friend... How would forensic archaeology ponder this question about fish eating corpses? I'm totally intrigued about the specifics of what you're researching.

My job is largely related to internet research but I'm working on slightly more banal subjects.

Please explain, or email me or whatever.

I have no doubt that many species of Balitoridae and Cobitidae would take advantage of a free meal. If an animal of any kind were to appear in the river system, I'll bet there would be somthing of a frenzy. That said, the attraction to wildlife that a corpse provides would invite larger species of fish, insects, birds, and mammals. I doubt the idea of loaches being responsible for more than a tiny - perhaps immeasurable - amount of damage to any animal's tissue, except possibly other fish.

[Mark in Vancouver]

On second thought, we know that some loaches occur in huge numbers. Upon reflection it now doesn't seem unlikely that a fairly large dead bird - for instance - might be consumed over a few days. What a morbid post, but whatever...

[Mike Ophir]

Although arent the vast majority of balitorid loaches vegetarian in nature?
Please correct me if im wrong.

Mike

[andyroo]

Crazy,
(appropriate call-name considering the topic, by the way)

In smaller drainages/rivers your main scavengers are usually going to be shrimp, crayfish, crabs and amphipods more then fish. Eating big chunks of flesh (like a leg, for example) requires specialized teeth and jaws, and for a small river or stream this would be such a rare food item/opportunity... i can't think that a fish would build a survival strategy around such large items.
Paranahs, some cichlids and some catfish i suppose... maybe a few others... could get the job done in bigger water. Regular fish like loaches would eat the maggots and small shrimp and flesh bits from messy feeding and rot, possibly accelerating the process.
O2 drop and water quality changes from decomposition may scare fish off...
And of course crocodiles.... Not too common in the UK. Stick with crayfish. Grumpy, hungry and efficient.
And eels. I've seen American eels do some terrible things to a dead dolphin.


Andyroo

[crazy]

Thanks, gives me some areas to start looking, right now the plan is to drop dead pigs in areas, possibly with a critter cam and watch them feed, the general idea is that crabs and other such scavengers will turn up, but other wise I have many hours of watching a pig decompose.

[andyroo]

Crazy,

Be careful, you may need a permit for this experiment in the UK.
This is a large pollutive item you will be introducing to the water. In a small river it will crash DO and water qualities and generally stink. It may cause fish kill. Turbidity will also likely increase, so cameras may only see murk. Also be aware that pigs are high fat animals, so will decompose very differently then other animals or even lower fat (often to do with age, but also breed) pigs. Either way, this should be addressed in the permitting process.

Is this experiment in the sea? In fresh water in the UK i don't thing you'll have any crabs, but certainly crayfish.

If critter-cams are too costly try little mesh shrimp/eel traps. This will get yoru nocturnal guys adn you can check them in the AM. Eels will eat your crayfish/prawns.

Andyroo

[Dr. Momfish]

agreed Andyroo. there is no need to dump a major corpse into any waterway.

gross project.

my experience of fish eating corpses is that they will only do so in extremis. they've got to be mighty hungry. like those starved fish in store tanks. they'll eat dead tankmates but fish in my own aquaria never did. they were well fed and rotten meat wasn't appetizing.

[crazy]

Yea we have all permits as this is for crime research, and pigs are excepted as the best type of analogue for humans. as to effecting the water way it is known that a human corpse can not change the water chemistry at all, wish it could, body finding would be soooo easy. So as I will be using piglets than they will not effect the water i.e. the Irish Sea, One major river, and a canal with more dead stuff in than i like to think about.

[andyroo]

Crazy,

Catch a few eels and test for gut contents... I'd love to see just how much they can eat if presented with unlimited tuck.

Cool,

Andyroo

[crazy]

would love to, but will probably find that I need another liscence to do that, might put down a few crab pots and find out what they come up with, put them in a 100 g tank and see how much they'll eat, but this sort of research has to stand up in court, so many rules and excepted protocols.