Loaches Online Forum

I'm sure that this has cropped up before in the Archives, but I can't find it. I recently added a couple more clowns to my swarm of youngsters, and it's immediately apparent that they look rather different from the originals. The most obvious difference is that the black bands are much narrower, fins brighter red, and body colour very pale, almost lemon-colour. Also, the new fish are generally leaner in appearance, with more pointed snout.

I know how rapidly clowns can change colour, so I don't take much notice of this, but the different back bands and slightly different body shape seem a bit of a clincher.

Emma, have you seen signs of these variations in your stock?

Brian

Here you go......

http://www.loaches.com/markings.html

Martin.

Hi Brian,

Yes, I have seen these sort of variations in my fish. I know that I've definitely mentioned it on LOL a couple of times before but at the moment I can't seem to locate the threads (I'll try again later though).

In the meantime, here's a couple of comparison photographs, that show the different head shapes quite clearly in my fish:

Here's one of a few of the 'round-faced' ones.....


And one of the 'long-nosed' ones digging in the sand....


Would love to see some pics of your fish,

Emma

As well as different colours, different tail too

I notice you have MTS in your gravel- do your clowns eat them? I have 2 kubotais in a 55 and there's an MTS infestation but the loaches kill em all before they reach .25"

angelfish83 wrote:I notice you have MTS in your gravel- do your clowns eat them? I have 2 kubotais in a 55 and there's a friggin MTS infestation but the loaches kill em all before they reach .25"

angelfish83 - you might want to PM midman about this, or else start a new thread as this is Propellerhead's thread re: differences in clown loach populations.

Emma

Here we go Brian, I found one of the threads I was thinking of, back on the old LOL site:

http://aquaweb.pair.com/forums/archives ... view=93345

I'm sure there was another one at some point, but haven't managed to locate it yet.

Emma

I started a thread on this about a month ago. No responses. I've got the same drama: four animals, two pairs of different shapes/stripes/colour patterns and personalitites. They don't seem to get along too well either. Sumatrans= super social, Bornean= loners and annoyed with socialite pestering.
And the pelvic fin colours according to Martin's page on Borneo vs Sumatran heritage seem to be plastic, ie- (thought they were) Sumatrans fins seem to be darkenning.

What a headach.

Are they morphs, races or species?

A

Andyroo is absolutely correct. The newcomers are being frozen out by the existing mob of loaches, and their behaviour is very differerent. I'd guess that they are verging on becoming a different species - like happens with Malawi cichlids. Pity we can't breed them to find our their preferences.
Brian

That's really weird. Mine all interact together, no matter what their shape, size, or colour. How many do you keep together, Brian & Andyroo?

Emma

4-
one larger (2.5") and one little (1.25") Bornean long-snout and two 2" Sumatran stubbies.
Stubbies seem much less willing to dig/work for a meal/snail as well.

And then the rest of the crew, but no other loaches.

A

I have 2 of the "new" Borneo slim types, 3 small and 2 large of the stockier Sumatran types. They have little in common apart from general coloration. Borneo types are loners, and tend to rest perched on a rock; Sumatran babies are extremely active and contually dance up and down at the front of the tank.

I'll keep watching for any other variations

Brian

Interesting stuff, but be careful about the effect of small groups.

I originally thought I saw some rejections based on the type/markings, but they stopped when all loaches were combined in a single tank (I have six now -- all in 2.5"-3.5" range). With 4, there was some rejection, with 2 there was even rather violent fighting. Now they really function as a single group.

It may be that when you have a group of 4-5 *of different sizes* it is not always sufficient for stable uniform behavior and you are seeing this as something else?

(Just my 2c)

This is why is asked how many were being kept together.

Because these are small sized groups, it's difficult to say whether you'd be seeing the same behaviour if all your loaches were of the same 'race'. It is possible that this is perfectly normal behaviour between the fish, and this is being interpreted as of being because they look different, when in fact it may have occured even with fish that look the same.

It would be interesting to watch what happens when more are added to your existing groups.

With my lot (somewhere between 35 and 40) all the usual stuff goes on - digging, fighting, sleeping together, following, copying etc etc - but all 'races' interact with each other and so I couldn't say that the ones with longer noses are more aggressive than the ones with rounder faces for example. They all socialise well and will give as good as they get if need be, and they are all a mixture of different shapes, sizes, colours etc.

Also remember that it will take a while for new fish to settle in when adding only a couple of new ones to a long-established group.

Emma

andyroo,
what size tank. I certainly do not have the population that emma has. but i keep a couple small groups. Up to 12 now (and to think I offered craig a few a couple of years back because i was "phasing loaches out". )

I have found that the aggression you mention can be a result not only of group size but tank size as well.

I have not seen the "race" conflict attall.