Loaches Online Forum

hello all! i have had my one tank, which primarily houses loaches, set up for seven years now. all are thriving and doing well. I am just interested in providing a better environment I am interested in changing it over to sand(also adding powerheads for more circulation for the loaches). I love the idea but i have some questions first.
1-your guys opinions on the ability of sand to grow beneficial bacteria compared to regular aquarium gravel. Some websites say that it reduces nitrates and allows debris to lay on top of the sand rather than sink into the gravel while others say it forms harmful gas pockets.
2-How often is it requred that you stir the sand up, if neccesary. I read about once a month or so.
3-plants, even though somebody is tearing them up in there- i know cryptocorynes like sand but what else. I have plenty of wood and stones for moss/anubias/ferns.

I have sand tanks, and most of the bacteria is in the filter, so I don't see a problem. I don't have a problem keeping my tanks cycled.

I don't grow plants in the sand, so I vacuum my sand the same way I vacuum gravel. I also have Kuhlies, Horsehead loaches, eels, banjo catfish and MTS which keep the sand turned. All of them hang out in the sand. I never need to worry about MTS, because the loaches keep them in control. I have to be careful when I am vacuuming so I don't cut one of my fish under the gravel or sand.

My fish club just had a aquatic plant nursery as our speaker. They grow all their plants in sand. Easier for the plants to establish their roots and for them to pull the plants out. I have floating plants. I have giving up fighting with the loaches and eels about buried plants. They like to pull them up, so my plants float.

I originally started with sand, but apparently it was the WRONG kind (this powder fine sand I got at Petsmart)
It compacted down completely to a thick layer of sludge, and I know there were horriible pockets of yuck in the tank because when I would vacuum and go a little deep into a part of the sand that was dark, a horrible smell would come out of the syphon bucket.
I sucked it all out in the syphon and replaced it with gravel (miracle that my fish did not suffer), but now I wish I had better sand, rather than gravel.
I am interested in hearing what the experienced people think about the best TYPE of sand to get!!!!
Wait to get the sand until you hear from somebody who can give you experienced advise. It is REALLY a pain to remove ALL the bad sand to get the good kind.
Maybe if I had kuhlis during that time, or horseface loaches that would stir up the sand, my problem may not have happened. I am just sharing my experience.

I use pool filter sand from the pool store. 50# for $8. Cheapest substrate, rinse well and it isn't the sugar sand that causes all the problems. Make sure it doesn't get into your impellor. It destroys the impellor.

That's the problem I had with sand. Very hard to keep it out of filter intakes with loaches stirring it up all the time.

Hey I was thinking of switching to sand too so I'm glad this was brought up. Do you have to worry about sucking the sand out when your vacuming? And my filter intake is WAY at the top of my tank which is about 2ft high so do you peeps think I would need to worry as much about the sand getting into my canister filter system? And pool filter sand? really? thats freaking AWSOME you guys rock with your advice

Do you know how short the H.O.T. Magnum Canister Filter intake is?

Yep, sand all in it.

Hmm so is one better off just using very fine gravel? And how bad is it for the filter? I mean it sounds like it would be VERY bad but I'm kinda new to this so maybe not?

I have aquaclears and they have really long intakes, and for the most part, I can keep them clear of sand. But I do have to be careful. I get most of my sand int he filters during wate rhcanges. My fault, not the fishies, so I turn off the filter on the side of the tank I am adding water into.

I think because the pool filter sand is heavier, I don't have as many problems. When I vacuum, I just crimp the hose if the sand rises too high in the siphon. -- the yuck is still lighter I also pour the sand back into the tank from the bucket, after I rinse it.

1-your guys opinions on the ability of sand to grow beneficial bacteria compared to regular aquarium gravel.

Nitrifying bacteria will grow best in areas with good water flow. Plenty of oxygen, ammonia delivered to their door...
In a tank with gravel the bacteria will only be on the upper layers of the gravel. Not in the direct light, but right under that first layer.
If you are running an undergravel filter then the bacteria will grow on more of the gravel.
Sand has a LOT LOT LOT more surface area to offer as lodging sites for the bacteria, but the water circulation is poor though sand. More likely to grow anaerobic bacteria, if the sand is any deeper than about 2".
It has little to do with where the debris falls on the sand or if it sinks through the gravel.

2-How often is it required that you stir the sand up?

With every water change it is good to stir up some of the sand. With weekly water changes you might stir all the sand once a month. Trouble spots are under rocks and branches, though, so a 'sand stir schedule' might look like this:
Week 1: Left half of tank, and under all the decor.
Week 2: under all the decor.
Week 3: Right half of tank, and under all the decor.
Week 4: under all the decor.
Once you get to know your tank you may see that some branches or rocks do not generate these anaerobic areas, and need not be moved weekly.
Shallower sand is better.

3-plants, even though somebody is tearing them up in there- i know cryptocorynes like sand but what else. I have plenty of wood and stones for moss/anubias/ferns.

I would put fertilizer tablets under any rooted plant. Swords, Valisnaria, and even Crypts. Plants that grow on rocks and wood get their nutrients from the water, and you might need to add fertilizer to the water for them. I would aim at about 2 watts per gallon of light, unless you have t-5 bulbs. Then about 1-1.5 watts is plenty. Add carbon, such as Excel.

thanks all! i think i will swith over to sand in the months to come, ill keep you updated then with pictures.

oh and one more thing, how would one stir the sand if plants roots were trying to get established?

I would use MTS and Horsefaced loaches.

the mts will be no problem as i have them in my other planted tanks, horsefaced loaches are a rarity among here so we will see about them.

Kuhlies work too, but mine are not always in the sand. My horsefaced loach I can go weeks without seeing, since it stays under the sand. My eels stay in the sand, and peacocks are pretty well behaved (will eat fry).