LFS not treating white spot

[midman]

I have been in to my local garden centre recently which has a pet section. The last time I was in there I noticed that all their clown loaches were covered in white spot. I asked if they were quarantined and being treated and I got the usual answer 'I think so.' I went back in there 2 days ago, some 10 days after I first went in and they still had white spot. I complained again - though I am sure it fell on deaf ears. I am guessing white spot will kill if left long enough? And I know, from whenever I have had it that it is easy to treat with medication, which makes it even more annoying. When I ask if they have used medication they always only ever mention the fact that they have UV filters, whatever that means. What should I do Other than the obvious.

[Emma Turner]

Yes, they should definitely be treating them. If left untreated, they will lose these fish, which is not only upsetting but is so easily avoidable. Have you spoken to the manager of the pet centre? If it's owned by the garden centre, ask to speak to the manager there. The fish should be off sale and being treated with something like Protozin from Waterlife.

Emma

[shari2]

If you haven't spoken to a manager or supervisor, you could try that. Do they have anyone who's in charge of the fish section, or is it a side shoot staffed by a kid, or whoever works in a nearby area?

I don't use UV myself, but have read others who say it will eliminate ick.

Unfortunately, if they don't care they won't treat it and yes, they may well die. If the store runs a central system then all the other fish will have been exposed as well. Do any other tanks show signs of it? Clowns are notoriously susceptible to it.

I know that I have had a couple of run ins with one of my lfs's over skinny in loaches. Took 3 times and speaking to the OWNER, outlining the treatment carefully, showing him a med that he had in stock which would work, AND a tank full of clowns and yo yos with it before he bothered to try it. It is JUST a fish store. And they do have people who are knowlegeable there. The lost power once, the temp dropped in all their tanks, they lost alot of fish and the rest came down with ick. They treated that time, and closed for sale all the tanks till the spots were gone -- but sold them as soon as it looked 'better'...

How a store with a fish section, that SHOULD have both knowledge and means to easily treat for ick, does not, I don't understand. Guess the fish section is not all that important in a 'garden center'.

[chris1932]

Almost all refrence materials mention that white spot starts in the gills. These fish will suffer terribly. Imagine a pair of hands around your neck for days or weeks. This is what the fish will go through. You also have to take into account the size. All of these parasites or fungus look small to us, to put it into prespective imagine a human being cover by something the size of a fiddler crab that you cant shake. If only the laws of animal cruelty covered more than cats and dogs.

Christian

[Wendie]

This is one of the reasons I stopped buying fish at the local LFS managed by a kid and with kids working in it. Dead fish in several tanks and ick in several of the other tanks. One tank had "not for sale" on it and was filled with sick fish.

[chris1932]

This is why I switched to getting my fish right from the importer. I get what I want. I can order by the scientific name, not some chain store covers all name. I like it much better this way.

Oh to live close to Emma the loach queen and master keeper. Must be nice, but I dont so I make due.

Chris

[mikev]

I don't use UV myself, but have read others who say it will eliminate ick.

It does, but it seems to work not as fast as drugs. But UV+(just a little of drugs) worked very nicely for me.

If the store says that they have UV, this almost certainly means that they have a central system. This means that it may be difficult for them to treat one tank, and it also means that ALL their tanks are likely to be ich-contaminated, even if you don't see the disease. The necessity to treat the entire system is probably what explains their reluctance to treat.

I've seen (in a store with a central UV-equipped system) a "permanent" ich situation: fish would get it, next week will be symptom-free, then ich will come back,...etc. This happens because UV killed a lot of parasite, but not all. Big question is if recurrent "light" ich causes long-term damage.

(Interestingly, the hillstreams I'm having trouble with had about six weeks of this recurrent ich situation .. I was reluctant to take them home until the signs totally dissappear. No way to know if this permanently damaged them, but this is one thing that makes me wonder.)

[Mad Duff]

It is interesting that you have mentioned reoccurring ich Mike, I have been having a problem for some time in my Clown tank with this. It started late last year and was a real pain to sort out but I thought I had cracked it earlier this year when it didn’t return after Protozin treatments and water changes etc.

While the tank was at 83' to 85' during the summer everything was fine but as soon as the temperature has dropped back down to 80' the ich has reappeared. I started a treatment of protozin straight away but on the 5th day the ich had started to show on the Clowns, I since put the temperature back up to 83.9' and it seems to have stopped spreading.

I think it could be the zebra barbs that are possibly carriers, the problems only really started after they went in and they were in quarantine for 4 weeks before they went in to that tank.

All the fish are feeding fine and swimming around as normal apart from a couple of clowns that have their dorsal fins down, its beginning to be a real pain.

[angelfish83]

UV will only kill ich at OVER 40 WATTS with a dwell time of over five seconds at a frequency of atleast once every 8 hours. THat's the bare bare bare minimum.

[angelfish83]

It is interesting that you have mentioned reoccurring ich Mike, I have been having a problem for some time in my Clown tank with this. It started late last year and was a real pain to sort out but I thought I had cracked it earlier this year when it didn’t return after Protozin treatments and water changes etc.

While the tank was at 83' to 85' during the summer everything was fine but as soon as the temperature has dropped back down to 80' the ich has reappeared. I started a treatment of protozin straight away but on the 5th day the ich had started to show on the Clowns, I since put the temperature back up to 83.9' and it seems to have stopped spreading.

I think it could be the zebra barbs that are possibly carriers, the problems only really started after they went in and they were in quarantine for 4 weeks before they went in to that tank.

All the fish are feeding fine and swimming around as normal apart from a couple of clowns that have their dorsal fins down, its beginning to be a real pain.

Ich can't survive at high temperatures. THere is a window in which it gets sort of dopey and dormant but doesn't die. If the fish can tolerate 85 (dopey window) try going for 90 and leaving it for about four days or until you see stress. This will erradicate ich.

[mikev]

It is interesting that you have mentioned reoccurring ich Mike, I have been having a problem for some time in my Clown tank with this....

I think I was referring to a different phenomena. What I saw in the store was ich spread over a large number of tanks not ever fully cured, but dancing between different fishes. They eventually did get it under some control by dumping Ich Guard into the entire system, UV alone could not do it.

What is happening in your case is something else; there are different opinions on the subject of reoccurring ich in a single tank with most people saying that it is impossible and you probably did not run the treatment long enough. I personally think that there are carriers and that clowns themselves are often carriers; and I saw myself ich appearing out of nowhere once the fish immune system was damaged.

[Mad Duff]

What is happening in your case is something else; there are different opinions on the subject of reoccurring ich in a single tank with most people saying that it is impossible and you probably did not run the treatment long enough. I personally think that there are carriers and that clowns themselves are often carriers; and I saw myself ich appearing out of nowhere once the fish immune system was damaged.

I can honestly say that every treatment has been carried out to the instructions on the bottle every time, like I said I think that the zebra barbs are the cause as the ich only turned up after they were added to the tank. I have had nearly all the clowns for about 4 years and they moved into this tank from their 44 gallon in which I never had a problem and they had been in this tank for 6 months with no problems before the zebra barbs went in. I know clowns can be susceptible and I was hoping to dose them with Levimasole to give their immune systems a boost but then I noticed the ich on the barbs.

Thanks Angelfish, I may see how the Protozin goes for the next couple of days and if that doesn't work I will crank up the temperature a bit, I will find out an spare air pump before I put it up to high.

[chris1932]

Temp is a good way to eradicate Ich. I have had great success with Paraguard. Paraguard and high temps has always worked for me. Your issue could be comunity tank? Every time I have treated for Ich I do partial water changes daily, and I take the majority of the water from the bottom of the tank. Remember that the cyst form can survive for much longer in the cooler pores of the gravel "unless you have plant cables"while the surface water remains hot. I also run low pH in every tank all around 6.3ish. The only tank that is different than that is the tank I have Altum angels in and it is 5.5-5.6.

Hope your Clowns feel better soon. Thanks for the posting tips Duff. I am happy to have some pics up.

Christian

[midman]

I sent an e mail to the shop yesterday, informing them that not only were they keeping fish untreated with white spot but also that they were selling them to the public when they should quarantined while they are ill. Maybe they will sort it out now.

[midman]

Just to give an update on this thread - I E-mailed the shop concerned approximately 2 weeks ago. I had no reply whatsoever. I returned to the same shop yesterday and noticed that all the same loaches still had white spot. I stood and talked to the guy in their for about 20 mins. I also pointed out 2 loaches that were emaciated. He said they were eating well. I said you would eat well too if you had parasitic worms eating all the food you take in. he tried to assure me that the the UV filters were set high enough to eradicate Ich. I couldn't comment on this as I don't know anything about them. The main thing is that this tank has got some really sick clowns. i asked him if he ever put them in a quarantine tank - he said no as this stressed them even more and when he puts them back they just get white spot again. I presume this white spot must be in the whole system. They really don't seem capable of treating this problem. What should I do. I feel I have exhausted all my options with them.