Been looking

[shari2]

without success.

Could someone clue me in to which hillstream has the square blocky head, dark body with lighter spots, overlapping fins, and can change color? I had one...was very dark with small light spots, then as it sat on a light beige/grey rock all signs of spots disappeared and the fish was the same color as the rock.

Now, it's back on the glass, dark. It's caudal tail is whitish with a dark horizontal band through the center from the peduncle to the tip of the tail. The other one that is similar has a caudal fin with dark on the bottom. Are they the same? The one with the dark bottom tail edge did not change color when they were both on the same rock butting heads. The grey one was immovable, the other guy just left him alone. Keeps coming up along side him on the glass or where ever he is, but the color changing one ignores the other in rather singleminded fashion.

I can see this may become obsessive...

[angelfish83]

I hope you find what you're after

Atleast you can tell them apart. I have a really hard time telling them apart... I can only distinguish two 'species'... Pretty sad huh ?

[Martin Thoene]

Well....your description kind of sounds like G. ctenocephalus.

I've found my ones will go onto Anubias leaves and change.....but not as much as you seem to be describing. And then there's the G. ocellatus which can go from this:



....to this....



Now I used to have a fish that looked virtually identical to this:



.......who would go onto leaves under the bright light and end up like this:



The brown fish pictured never does that????

Anyhow.....need to see pictures of yours.....as good as the Bristly picture please, thank you, etc

Martin.

[angelfish83]

Holy craaaapp thats cool....

[shari2]

You should see them live and in person. I have three They are sometimes very golden looking, other times darker. VERY lively cute little buggers.

The fish I'm trying to describe has a VERY square shaped head with a defined angle at the 'noseline' that bends straight down -- sort of like a box corner...I'll try to get some pics, but like I said before...I promise they will not be good. Unless some freak accident should happen... It has a darker base color with light beigey spots (not yellow, not gold), and from the top view it seems the spots are almost thin lines at the caudal end of the dorsal ridge. The spots themselves are not circular--they are angley...nevermind. You really need a pic, I know. I will try... maybe his color is muted because he's still acclimating...dunno. His behavior is similar to the others who seem to have moved right in with not much stress. He's flitting, and grazing and standing his ground when the other fish come around.

We shall see.

[Graeme Robson]

Sounds interesting!

[Martin Thoene]

Might be wrong in interpreting your description, but the square head shape
fits a few species. This nose thing your describing would possibly be what's called a secondary rostrum, which might fit Gastromyzon borneensis, but the markings are wrong. Plus your description of the caudal markings is quite unlike anything I can think of. Have you seen it flare the fins yet?

Anyhowdoodly, the general behaviour that you are describing gives me the impression that you've got a bunch of nice healthy fish there. Lots of movement and interaction are green-light signs.

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

We definately need pics...and Dr. Tan's book.

[shari2]

OK. so he's not cooperating. Couldn't get a face shot, but here's a lousy shot of the back end. You can (kinda) see that the spots in the backside end are not round, and sorta disorganized. He's got a very bright blue (similar to cteno) center in the caudal. Above and below it is darker (usually). Haven't had a good look at the dorsal yet, but at times I think I see the same kind of blue that's in the caudal...



He has a rather defined ridge down both sides

You can kinda see the square nose. From the front he looks like Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars 1 ...


Below is the same fish in the shadow of the powerhead:


Probably just your average fish and I just can't tell what it is yet, right?

[Jim Powers]

That is G. stellatus in camo mode.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2688

All gastros will "wash out" like that when they are on a lighter colored background. Stellatus does not seem to be as dark as ctenocephalus or scitulus when on a dark background, though.
One thing I have noticed about this species is that some seem to have a more squared off snout than others. Maybe that's a sexual characteristic?
By the way, from the look of that green "string" it appears to be feeding well.
I can also see a cteno skulking in the background.

[Martin Thoene]

Well, I'm not placing any bets, but in many respects it fits the decription for the true Gastromyzon ridens. That description even mentions a steeply sloping nose profile and areas of the body washing out of color. The truncated nose is right on.
Big thing for you to look for is the extension of the sublacrimnal groove which is on the ventral side of the head, but extends ONLY in G. ridens up the sides of the head and gives the impression that the fish is smiling.

Does it look happy?

In one of your pictures there appears to be an orangey light under the fish's eye. The flash has picked it up. The only one of mine that does that is the G. stellatus which is part of the ridens complex, but doesn't have such dense spotting in the examples I've seen.

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

I have Dr. Tan's book here, and unfortunately, there is no info on what G. ridens looks like alive. No pics or description.
It does say something in the stellatus description that is odd and seems to contradict other things I have read about ridens characteristics, particularly the snout.
"Gastromyzon stellatus can be further differentiated from its congeners of the G. ridens group by the following characteristics: snout truncated when viewed dorsally vs. rounded in G. ridens adpressed dorsal fin not overlapping level of anal fin origin vs. overlapping in G. ridens;...smaller head length than G. ridens..."

I'm wondering if stellatus was incorrectly ID'd as ridens years ago.

[shari2]

Couple more. Here's a sloppy face shot. There is alot of gold in the face when the flash catches it. Haven't gotten a good look at his underside yet...



Though the shot is lousy can you see what I mean by the nose bend?



He is certainly covered with spots. And is shy of the camera. Scoots off after one or two flashes. His nose line seems more square than stellatus, and there's no red yet in his caudal, but I'll go with that.

[Martin Thoene]

"Gastromyzon stellatus can be further differentiated from its congeners of the G. ridens group by the following characteristics: snout truncated when viewed dorsally vs. rounded in G. ridens adpressed dorsal fin not overlapping level of anal fin origin vs. overlapping in G. ridens;...smaller head length than G. ridens..."

Tyson Roberts:

Gastromyzon ridens differs from all other Gastromyzon in having sublacrimal groove very deep and enlarged, extending posteriorly onto cheek (vs. sublacrimal groove restricted to ventral surface of head in all other Gastromyzon) Length of gill opening less than or barely equal to eye diameter (vs. equal to or greater than ete diameter); and snout relatively truncate, often with slight ventral concavity at its tip (snout more rounded in all other Gastromyzon except G. punctulatus, which lacks ventral concavity at snout tip).

Somewhat contradictory I would say.

G. ridens also has far more pectoral/pelvic overlap than other Gastromyzon.

Well my fish which fits the new description life photos of G. stellatus certainly has a square nose with ventral concavity, and from what I can see so does yours Shair, so I dunno. Its spot pattern is much smaller and denser than my one's though......and he's NEVER changed color that much.

You see where assimilation gets ya? Ball of confusion instead of cube of collective

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

I thought IDing these fish was supposed to be getting easier.