GF tank

[luca]

Hi All,
I have a 125g, moderately to densely planted, well, it's a constant fight with the GF on that one... We have 8 fancies in it, 4 grown-ups and 4 babies. The water temp is around 74-75F. I'm wondering if a few loaches would be fine sharing the GF's tank. If so, what (very peaceful) species would you recommend?

thanks,
luca

[sophie]

weather loaches.
peaceful and entertaining - they will appreciate the plants and also any driftwood you care to put in...

[luca]

weather loaches.
peaceful and entertaining - they will appreciate the plants and also any driftwood you care to put in...

Thanks for replying Sophie. I am reading that loaches like a fine gravel substrate. I have normal sized (natural) gravel, will they take offense?
How many can I comfortably (from their point of view) squeeze in? I see that they like company, but also that they get fairly big, and I wouldn't want to overstock. The tank has 2 emperor 400's and a fluval 405 canister filter, so there should be plenty of filtration. Last question, I keep a bit of salt with my goldies (~0.1%), would the loaches mind that?

luca

[sophie]

gravel: they would prefer sand to gravel, but if you can make a sandy "end", or a few sandy areas they should be absolutely content. they're unlikely to appreciate the salt though, and I think the goldies could probably survive happily without it, it isn;t really something they need. I know a lot of fishkeepers do add it, but I don't personally really see why - though I'd hasten to add I'm not an expert on salt by any means.

you could happily fit four or five weathers in that tank if you're not planning on adding any more goldfish, I'd have thought.

[shari2]

You should be aware however, that weather loaches will 'whisker' the goldies some. My daughter had two in a tank with her three goldfish and they did get tickled quite often and would run and try to hide from the weather loaches. they did no damage per se, but they did harass them a bit.

[sophie]

my goldfish don't mind it at all, though. It occurs quite a bit at feeding time as the weathers' eyesight is so poor that they follow the food smell coming form the goldfish's gills... the goldies do "run" away, but the rest of the time there are no issues.

[luca]

my goldfish don't mind it at all, though. It occurs quite a bit at feeding time as the weathers' eyesight is so poor that they follow the food smell coming form the goldfish's gills... the goldies do "run" away, but the rest of the time there are no issues.

Our GF are indeed slow eaters, especially the two Oranda's and the bubble-eye. I suppose that the weather loach would be the least likely to harass our goldies? Are there any alternatives?

luca

[mikev]

Are there any alternatives?
luca

If you run the tank at 74F-75F, and provide a bit of current and enough air, I don't see why you cannot keep any brookstream species in it.

This opens a lot of options, the Nemacheilinae subfamily is pretty large. Schisturas is one choice, Zippers is another, and more. These loaches will be smaller than Dojo's (usually 2"-4", depending on species). In most cases, sand substrate is still what you'd need.

[shari2]

I know very little about fancy goldfish, but I have read that bubble eyes especially, should be housed with other bubble eyes as their eyes are easily damaged.

I would imagine a bubble eye would not appreciate the weather loachy antics that they are capable of.

Do you have any pics of your tank? I'd imagine a nice sized tank with the group you describe should be a lovely, sedate and relaxing piece.

[mikev]

I know very little about fancy goldfish, but I have read that bubble eyes especially, should be housed with other bubble eyes as their eyes are easily damaged.

This was one of the worst disasters here years ago... I added some big-mouth catfish to a GF tank, and it quickly found the food: the telescope's eyes.... the poor blind fish somehow lasted another couple of years...

[luca]

I know very little about fancy goldfish, but I have read that bubble eyes especially, should be housed with other bubble eyes as their eyes are easily damaged.

This was one of the worst disasters here years ago... I added some big-mouth catfish to a GF tank, and it quickly found the food: the telescope's eyes.... the poor blind fish somehow lasted another couple of years...

The bubble-eye was among the first fish we bought, when we started about a year ago. Unfortunately we didn't know any better, common story I guess. We keep saying we would not buy another bubble-eye. A pity because is probably the most fun of our goldies to observe, lots of personality.
But I digress... Sand isn't a big problem, and I guess that salt could be cut back too. The 405 provides some water movement, wonder if it'd be enough. I'll look at the species you mentioned.

luca

[mikev]

You can (and should) eliminate the salt totally. Even if you are not getting loaches. GF is also a freshwater fish, after all

There are legitimate reasons for using salt -- as a medication for some diseases.

Of the species mentioned, the two I keep are:

Zipper:
Schistura Poculi (2" non-territorial schistura, in front):

Notice that zippers are all the same, but schisturas are a huge number of species, with very different behavior patterns, research before buying. One very pretty schistura is S.balteata, see Emma's thread, but this one is larger and territorial.

[Jim Powers]

I'm not sure I would want to keep schisturas with fancy goldfish like bubble eyes. That might be asking for trouble. They might harrass the goldfish and even damage the bubble membrane.

[mikev]

I think it depends on the schistura sp.

The ones I have here I would not worry about: they have not bothered anyone and I even saw small Gastros topping them and they retreat. But trying a random species would be dangerous indeed.

Well, if one wants to be totally safe, move the temp one degree up, and keep kuhlis.... they will be quite happy at 75f and owning the entire bottom of the tank may be even quite active...

[shari2]

Here's a link to the khuli profile:
http://community.loaches.com/species-in ... gio-kuhlii
You can browse the other pangio species to see the variety. Cool little fish.

they are a funny and active bottom fish when kept in groups, but sand substrate is best for them. Your goldfish might benefit from it too, if they root about in the bottom for food. I've seen my daughter's goldies actually picking up the rocks and spitting them out, and have heard of others having problems with their goldfish actually swallowing or getting small gravel stuck inside their mouths.

One thing I have read is that fancy goldfish can be kept at warmer temps than say, comet goldfish. For instance this comment from Aquaria Central:

Actually there is a rational explanation why fancier goldfish benefit from higher temperatures. The fanciest goldfish are are the ones that typically carry the most mutations and have undergone extensive linebreeding. Linebreeding reduces genetic variability which results in reduced vigor. That's why you hear about fish breeders occasionally outcrossing with an unrelated strain or wild type to introduce new genes and increase the vigor of their strain. The downside from the breeder's perspective is that offspring will temporarily be more unpredictable and there will be fewer fish with the desired traits. Goldfish demonstrate polyploid genetics which makes this really a mess (at least for me).

Anyway as you proceed from common, comet, shubunkin, ryunkin, oranda, lionhead, ranchu, veiltales, bubbleyes, etc. the fish get progressively less hardy and benefit from higher water temps. I heat my ryunkin/oranda tank to 74F.

Goldfish are not only messy but they are also oxygen hogs. So with increased water temps it becomes critical to oxygenate the water with air stones and good water movement.

Anyways, khulis would make nice bottom feeders, they love to hang about in plants and are very peaceful. There are also some very pretty ones about (if you can find them!).
...........
One other question. What is the pH of your tank?