Sick loaches - help

[dpbluec1]

Hi there! I have a 60 gal freshwater tank containing 6 clown loaches, all about 6 years old. I recently had a baby, so neglected the water quality until GASP I lost one of my guys to fin rot last week. I did a 25% water change daily for a week, and hit them with 1/4 ose of Tetracycline and Melafix until symptoms disappeared on my remaining 5. Now it's a week later and the tank is still cycling, so I'm doing 10% water changes with Stress Coat daily and the fin rot is starting to show again, with behavioral changes and cloudy eyes. They are no longer eating, and I'm kind of at a loss of what to do. At least 2 of my guys are going to die on me within the next day or two, so I'm trying like heck to figure out the best way to treat the tank other than a 100% clean out. I've not bothered checking my N levels, and will do that tomorrow when I can pick up a kit. Any help would be appreciated.

[Mark in Vancouver]

Slow down on the water changes a bit. Let the water sit in the tank for a few days, and then start regular weekly changes of 30-40%. Make sure to vacuum out any goop at the bottom of the tank and in the gravel. The only other thing I can suggest is increasing aeration somehow, with an airstone or powerhead.

Sorry to hear about the trouble. I guess it shows that you really can't drop the ball with these fish.

[dpbluec1]

I'll try that now. Just wonder if there's any medication that's loach-safe. In the past I've always used 1/4 or 1/2 recommended doses to treat ick, so I followed the same rule with the antibiotics. I also have PimaFix and MelaFix and doing 1/4 dose daily, but not sure if it's having any effect. Any other recommended treatments?

[TammyLiz]

Slow down on the water changes a bit. Let the water sit in the tank for a few days, and then start regular weekly changes of 30-40%. Make sure to vacuum out any goop at the bottom of the tank and in the gravel. The only other thing I can suggest is increasing aeration somehow, with an airstone or powerhead.

Sorry to hear about the trouble. I guess it shows that you really can't drop the ball with these fish.

Why are you suggesting fewer water changes if the tank is cycling? I am assuming it means there is ammonia. Isn't that something that could be causing the bacterial infection to surface? Of course I know you have more experience with loaches than I do, but I've just never heard of any benefits to decreasing water changes in a cycling tank unless they are too large. 10% doesn't sound like too much to me if done right before medication is added.

How high is the ammonia dpbluec1?

As far as loach safe medication, most meds are, but being scaleless they absorb it more readily hence the need for decrease dosage. A quarter dose of antibiotics is probably not enough. Under-treating and causing a cycle is probably worse than not treating at all. The antibiotics are probably what is causing your tank to recycle unless you cleaned the filter too rigorously, or maybe your pH crashed while you neglected water changes and the filter bacteria were inhibited.

[shari2]

If your tank is cycling, I would continue the 10% daily and do tests prior each day to see if that is the case. (difficult to do post-partum, I know!) Definitely add the air stone, or lower the water level so there is heavy return splash into the tank.

In my own experience loaches tolerate melafix, but DO NOT deal well with PimaFix at all. As in-- several yoyo loaches died (including a gravid female) when I treated a tank with it a few years back. I would not recommend its use with clowns. Besides, it is not enough of an antibiotic to really 'treat' an infection. I agree with Tammyliz that 1/4 dosing on antibiotics is unlikely to be effective. When treating for bacterial fin rot in angelfish I have had excellent results with Kanacyn. I've also used it with loaches at regular strength with no adverse effects.

How are the clowns doing today? And how are you holding up?
Yes, if you 'drop the ball' on water changes with loaches you have problems. . . but you can't drop the baby, either!

[Icewall42]

I can imagine the distress you must be feeling. I've had all kinds of clown loach problems over the years, and I've certainly lost a lot of them too. But I have managed to hang on to my two oldest (10 and 5-6 years old) so that they've been through everything--fin rot, ich, velvet, and another unknown disease that looks very similar to fin rot.

For the fin rot itself, I used Melafix exclusively. It took a very long time (weeks) for all traces of the rot to go away, but I did conquer it. DON'T follow my example here, because I was probably wrong in my procedure, but I used a full dose of Melafix every other day, then petered out the doses. Did a couple big water changes too.

So on that not, up the Melafix dose to 1/2 or maybe even 2/3 dose, because 1/4 isn't enough. Really scour that undergravel filter clean--get all the gunk out of it with a vacuum hose if you haven't done so already. That's about the best advice I can give.

Now, concerning the mysterious illness that looks like fin rot... someone else might know what it is. But if your clowns get it (and it only seems to attack clowns, unlike fin rot) they are done for unless you do some really heavy antibiotic treatment. I lost most of my clowns to it. Basically, it hits the endge of the tail fin. The edges turn cloudy and ragged, but the fins don't actually rot. This cloudiness slowly progresses into the tail fin and kills the fish. Even if I got the white stuff off the fish, if it was too advanced, the clown would still die. I had to remove my two biggest clowns to keep them from catching this contagious disease. That actually worked. What I ended up doing was heavy doses of Super Velvet Plus, and after that the uninfected of lightly infected clowns were saved.

I have no idea what sort of disease that was, but I had to play it by ear. If that sounds at all like what be going on for you now (though I doubt it)... I don't know what else to say. I'm not much of an expert, I'm afraid

[dpbluec1]

Well, I did a little asking around at my LFS and took all your advice and came up with the following that I did yesterday:
1 - fished out 1 dead loach (sad, was a 5 year old)
2 - removed all plants and hidey-holes except for 1 cave the remaining 4 could fit in
3 - did a 40% water change and complete vacuum
4 - dosed with full dose of Melafix with a chaser of stress coat
5 - add some cycle to kick of bacteria growth in N cycle
6 - added 2 air stones to really aerate the water
7 - washed caves and fake plants and stuff with toothbrush & hot water
8 - threw out my Pimafix and swore at it while it was in the trash

I then replaced the carbon filter pads today, and put the plants and caves back in. Lo and behold, everyone showed up for supper!

I see only one little area of infection on one fish, and the other 3 appear to be ok. I'm hoping to do 10% water changes daily still and will start checking my nitro levels in a couple of days. Planning to add cycle every day to get the bac levels going. These poor guys

Oh, and the baby has an ear infection. Ugh. I'll keep you posted.

[shari2]

Lo and behold, everyone showed up for supper!

Terrific!

Now if you can get some sleep...
Ear infections make for very cranky babies.