Room for new yo yo loaches?

[fishnose]

Hello everyone! I am new to loaches online, and new to loaches, and have a stupid question, but I want to make absolutely sure. I have a 20 gallon tank with 5 growing guppy fry, 2 platies, a zebra danio, a 2 inch rainbow shark, 3 small cherry barbs, a betta, 3 cories, a south american bumblebee cat, a kuhli loach, and a golden kuhli loach. I am afraid I already have too many fish, but I saw a tank full of the cutest skunk loaches doing the loachie dance at my LFS and got one. for some strange reason, whenever he escapes from his guppy breeder prison, all the other fish immediately develop a severe case of fin rot:x. What a coincidence! That is why he's in his little cell, but I feel so bad for him:( that I am trying to get a separate tank for the aggressive fish I bought because I had to. At that same store there was a tank of yo yo loaches for only $4.99! I promptly bought one and am planning on getting him 2 or 3 friends. I have been told that the 1/2 inch of fish per gallon rule doesn't work, so any advice on whether the tank was overstocked to begin with or whether it will be with more loaches would be very helpful, or if the message was so long you skimmed it and have no idea what I'm talking about, then a hello would be okay too.

[hemi]

if that bumble bee cat is the kind im thinking of your tank is in seriuos trouble
those things are nasty and eat fish
it loks like a cat fish
and is black with yellow stripes

we feed it to my piranhas
cuz it ate alot of my fish
worst part was we didnt even think he was alive for a couple months


otherwise i think your tank is maxed with fish
go get a 55 then think about some more fish

[shari2]

Hi fishnose.

It's a 20 gallon?

You have:
5 growing guppy fry
--which when adult will likely reproduce

2 platies
1 zebra danio
--which is a schooling fish

2 inch rainbow shark
--adult size = 4-6"

3 small cherry barbs
1 betta
3 cories
--what kind?

a south american bumblebee cat this?

2 kuhli loaches
1 skunk loach (who you are keeping in a box)
1 yo yo loach (and you're planning to get 2 or 3 more)

I have been told that the 1/2 inch of fish per gallon rule doesn't work, so any advice on whether the tank was overstocked to begin with or whether it will be with more loaches would be very helpful,...

That is a lot of fish for a 20 gallon. I think if you read up on the rather eclectic group you've got there, you may find you will want to make changes.

No, I wouldn't recommend adding any more fish. I would recommend returning the skunk loach.

Couple of questions for ya...
How long has the tank been set up?
What are your water parameters (temperature, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH)?
How often do you do water changes?
What filtration is on the tank?

Always helps to have the most information available when trying to provide advice...

[fishnose]

Couple of questions for ya...
How long has the tank been set up?
What are your water parameters (temperature, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH)?
How often do you do water changes?
What filtration is on the tank?

• Tank has been set up for about 5 months
  Temp: 72-80 ( fluctuations due to funky thermostat- lets it get way too cold, sends it up into danger zones, drops it again)heater is a penn-plax therma-flow pc plus
  ammonia, nitrite, nitrate unknown, test kit registered muddy greenish brown on all three when the range is in pinks, but I think the nitrate is low because I have a big amazon swordplant, and some other assorted plants.
  the ph is kinda high, like 7.8
  water changes are 6 gallons every week
  filtration is an aquaclear 200
  tetra air pump aeration
  Sorry about putting fish that don't work together, but I...never mind, bad excuse. I do have another 10 gallon tank set up into which I am moving the bumblebee catfish (I knew was a predator when I bought him, but thought I had a different tank for him, but an african clawed frog lives in it now) and the rainbow shark and the skunk loach. I can't return him, the policy is like 3 days and I missed it a while ago. I do NOT mean that I am putting the bumblebee catfish in with the african clawed frog. I'm not that stupid, although I have made some pretty stupid misteaks. The fish will not be mixed in with the frog. I don't think I'm one of those people who says, oh look at that oscar! he's so pretty! I'll put him in my goldfish bowl!,but I admit, the shark and the catfish and the loach were not good ideas. I know the catfish or the shark will eat the loach, depending on who grows faster, but flushing him is absolutely out of the question. I could return the skunk loach to the pet store and not get money back, and now I think that would be the best course of action, but it's not a great one. After the shark and the s. american bumblebee are in the separate tank, the skunk loach given back, will there be any more room for loach friends or just room for the fish to breathe? I am well aware of what guppies can do . 5 years ago, I bought a pair for a tank and I gave them all away after it was so overcrowded the pet store wouldn't let me trade in any more for supplies. I will give away the 3 females and keep the pair of males until they die -ouch that sounds harsh- and not replace them. I apologize for everything I did to the fish and to you, who will probably lose a few seconds off your life from the stress resulting from being mad at me for being uninformed, which is still an annoying part of me. I have spent hours upon hours googleing info on every aspect of fishieness, but I still need to ask dumb questions and hurt my fish. Any ideas about how I can work this out?

[fishnose]

sorry but I just remembered you asked me what kind of corydoras cats. One is an albino something-how do you tell?, one is a 3 year old 3 lined cory, and the third is a bronze or green.

[shari2]

I apologize for everything I did to the fish and to you, who will probably lose a few seconds off your life from the stress resulting from being mad at me for being uninformed,

No, fishnose, I'm not mad or annoyed. Just needed to spell it out for myself because there were a lot of fish strung together in your first post.

If the store will take the skunk back and give you store credit, that would work. You could use it toward other supplies and maybe educate them that those particular fish are aggressive and do not make good 'community' fish.

Did you know that wide temperature swings can stress fish and lead to all kinds of problems? Might want to consider getting a different heater if possible.

It would really not be a terrific idea to add a group of yoyos to a 20g tank, even if they were your only fish. The can get to 6" each and grow fairly quickly. Sorry...

You are doing the right thing asking questions. Yanno, it has been said that the only stupid question is the one not asked...

So if you're planning on rearranging the fish/frog populations what will the breakdown be? Who will be where? Then maybe we can look at the plans again.

[fishnose]

Sorry everything was all jumbled together, I haven't figured out the list tools and everything. There is an old 5 or 10 gallon acrylic tank in my basement first used for anoles, then hermit crabs, for a short time it was a terrarium, and now I hope it will be able to house my frog. If he is in there, that leaves him without a filter or light fixture, but if I do enough water changes and give him some java moss, he should be okay. He is about 8 years old, I think, and his previous owner kept him in a 10 gallon tank with no filter or water changes and only fed him every other week or so with pellets. when I got him, I thought he was albino, but after feeding him earthworms he turned a nice brownish gray and began croaking at night again. This will leave his tank with the filter and heater and everything open to the aggressive fish. I am worried that they will not fit. Would the fully grown shark and bumblebee catfish overcrowd it? I have found that the bigger the fish are, the amount of space they need increases exponentially. I have 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. They are about 6 inches combined, and an aquaclear mini and an aerator and 30% water changes and gravel vacuuming every week, yet I still ocasionally see them gasping at the surface, but usually less than once per month. There is still no place for the skunk loach. The pet store said they would be glad to take him back, but not for store credit. This puzzles me because they have a guppy tank that fills up sporadically with guppies that all look related, probably from a customer's house. Another option I have been juggling is to upgrade to a larger tank. Do you know of any place I could trade in what I have for a 40 ish gallon setup? how much would this cost? I really want to keep that yoyo. I have watched him follow the catfish around, not in the aggressive darting motion I see in my shark and barbs, but slowly watching him from a few inches away. I will try to shorten up future messages.

[shari2]

You know what fishnose? It's not the length of your posts (heaven knows I write some looonnnggg ones!). It is not putting any space between your thoughts that makes it seem hard to read...but I digress.

Remind me please, what size is the tank the frog is moving out of? You will clean it really well (but NOT with soap!) right?

So you have a 10g with two goldfish, a 20g and the little one for the frog? Can you make a list of what will be in the 20 again?

Your LFS will take back the skunk but not for credit? Not for a trade either? Who are they kidding? you spend money on the fish and then they graciously tell you they'll take it back to sell to someone else? ? ? Sheesh.

As for buying a bigger tank maybe someone can tell you how to use craigslist.org or aquabid. I never do myself, so won't be much help. You can always check the classified ads in your local newspaper, too.

[fishnose]

The frog is moving out of a 10 gallon tank, yes it will be cleaned with a solution of aquarium salt. The pet store has made it clear they won't do a trade in. I share your opinon! the other one that used to be there run by people who drove motorcycles and had tatooes all over them would let me trade in guppies and platies for catfish and let me swap my plecos in for smaller ones when they passed the 4.5 inch mark.

In the 20 gallon tank I have:
5 small guppies-2 males and 3 females

2 platys

3 cories- three lined, bronze, albino

1 betta

1 rainbow shark

1 zebra danio

3 cherry barbs

2 kuhlis-1 regular and 1 golden

1 South American bumblebee catfish

1 yoyo loach

1 skunk loach in box

I can't figure out if this will work out: shark and bumblebee cat in 10 gallon, and will the skunk loach be okay in there with them? will the platies, who would actually chase the rainbow shark away, be okay in there? They could move in there to open up enough room for the yoyo, and I would find another home for the 3 female guppies, which would eliminate fry and possible make enough room for the yoyo to have one friend?

[fishnose]

thoughts?

[TammyLiz]

I thought I'd take some time to analyze your situation here.

I can tell you want someone to list of some magical combination that would give all of your fish a good living environment but in my opinion one does not exist with the tanks you have available. I read over the list several times and just don't see a good way to divide them between a 10 gallon and a 20 gallon. Plus, the frog really deserves at least the 10 gallon so you ought to be putting the fish in the 20 and that little acrylic tank.

Working from the bottom up with the space you have this is how I see it:

Small acrylic tank. Since you think its about five gallons (measure it and type the numbers into an online tank volume calculator to figure it out), I'd say its likely too small for the frog. He really deserves at least 10 gallons. You could put the betta in there. Since it doesn't have a filter thats about all I could see working in there. You could do weekly to biweekly 50-100% water changes to avoid finrot. He'd do better if you go a heater, too. If your house is below 72deg F its almost a must or he'll just mope.

The 10 gallon would be for the frog.

Then the 20 gallon. I just don't see this working long term at all. You'll have losses, from stress and disease. I'd say the yoyo, the skunk, and maybe also the rainbow need to come out of there. It would be good if you could get some more danios to keep that one company (they look so nice swimming together, too), and getting rid of the guppies would be good but the catfish would probably take care of the fry for you if you want to keep them.

If you're determined to keep the loaches and the rainbow you really ought to look into getting another tank that is larger. I have five yoyos in a 55 gallon. Maybe you've noticed my post about how I've had to temporarily put them in a 20 gallon because my stand was threatening to dump the tank. I can tell you the yoyos are not themselves, and shouldn't be kept in something that small long term. Also, a group of two, as you were asking about in your last post, is not good. You'd have one alpha, and only one other yoyo. The assertion of the alpha is not an issue if there are multiple others, but too much on just one. This is intensified greatly in a small tank. I've seen it happen in a fish store. They were there for a month, and when I bought the two of them, the one that looked washed out, scared, and weak, was immediately absolutely fine once put in the 55 gallon tank.

Probably not what you want to hear but IMO its so much more rewarding to have a balanced setup with happy fish rather than just trying to make something work that is so far from ideal, even if you can't have all the fish you're dying to have. Thats why so many people end up with a zillion tanks--so they can keep everything they want, and keep them happy, too!

[mikev]

Very nice explanation, Tammy, but it may be even worse.

That golden kuhli loach -- is it a kuhli or a dojo? (this name is used for dojos too...)

[fishnose]

Oh well...I kinda knew that my setup wouldn't work but like TammyLiz said, I was hoping there would be a magic way for all the fish to be happy. I know the skunk loach has to go due to the fact that he is WAY too aggressive, but if I manage to upgrade to a 40 or 55 gallon tank, might I be able to reduce the overcrowding enough to get 2 more yo yos?

I want to figure out a way to trade in my tank, stand and equipment for the bigger size to avoid the cost, but the fish store closest to me is or almost is out of business. I am using another one that is not quite as LFS-y. They will gladly take my skunk loach, rainbow shark, etc. but for free, no store credit, no trades. Where would I be able to trade up?

I am pretty sure it is a golden kuhli, not a weather loach, it matches the picture in the loachie picture identifier.

I am afraid my bumblebee cat will eat the smaller fish, and the only reason the baby guppies have not been released into the main tank is that he grows at the same rate as them. If I manage to, I will ge a 10 or 15 gallon tank for him and maybe the rainbow.

am I on the right track?

[shari2]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Tammy's evaluation too, fishnose.

But on the bright side, your posts are much easier to read now...
Thanks!

[TammyLiz]

If you're going to be buying new tanks your possibilities grow a lot.

I would not put a rainbow shark in a 10-15 gallon aquarium. Full grown it wouldn't have much room to turn around.