Lost one of our Pseudogastromyzon cheni...

The forum for the very best information on loaches of all types. Come learn from our membership's vast experience!

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

Post Reply
User avatar
LES..
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Lost one of our Pseudogastromyzon cheni...

Post by LES.. » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:09 am

It is a sad day, one of our mature male P. Cheni was found dead in the tank this morning. This loach was the second one in the tank to adopt a dominant position forcing the previous alpha loach to restrict his territory to a much smaller section of the tank. Ever since that point in time the tank has been a battle ground between the two opposing males and all those that got in the way. I fear that the death was the result of this continued fighting.

Conventional wisdom from the Cheni profile suggests that territorial fights are non-fatal as they don't have the equipment to significantly damage each other. I would like to get some opinions from the experts on whether the damage that can be seen on the dead fish can be put down to fighting or if i am missing something more alarming.

First off all water parameters are 7.5 pH 0 ammonia 0 nitrite ~50ppm Nitrate (damn that tap water!) in a tank that is horribly overstocked (yes, the Cheni keep breeding and the tank was too small to start with). We have owned this loach for about 18 months and there have not been any new introductions to the tank in the past 10 moths. The last thing added to the tank was some new plants around 2 months ago. I can well imagine that the overcrowding in the tank has added to the stress an Alpha loach has to deal with requiring them to spend more time chasing rivals and defending territory. Not ideal conditions.

Over the past couple of days the loach had been acting in an agitated manner and was more active in defending his territory than usual, we put this down to the fact that our two mature females are both gravid at the moment and looking to spawn. If this is significant i don't know.

When i found the body this morning he had a distinctly roughed up look to him with parts of his tubercles appearing to be lose, colour wise he appeared to have a pale head in line with the war paint effect seen when fighting however i can not comment on if this is just natural fading post-mortem.

On removing the body and closer inspection i noted that there seems to be damage located between the pelvic fins and the anus:
Image

Here is a full body shot (click on the image for a full sized copy):
Image

Unfortunately i'm not experienced enough to make any judgements on this so would greatly appreciate hearing other opinions.

Thanks for your time,
LES..

--edit--
to fix links.
Last edited by LES.. on Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Jim Powers
Posts: 5208
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:15 pm
Location: Bloomington, Indiana

Post by Jim Powers » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:50 am

Sorry to hear about your loss. I wonder if the continued fighting and the resulting stress, helped hasten this fish's demise.
Sometimes hillstreams just die suddenly with only a day or so where you notice "something different" about the fish. That can be either color or behavior changes, in my experience.
As for the markings (Sorry, but I can't see your pics), they may be just the result of the other fish feeding on the dead one. Chenis seem to enjoy doing this. The color loss after death is normal.
The original breeding male cheni of mine lost dominance after two of his sons reached sexual maturity and banished him to the back of the tank. He ended up outliving them and as soon as they died resumed his role as an active breeder. By this time he was about 5 years old and had a cateract on one eye. He continued breeding (with a young female) until a couple of weeks before his death. The original female died a couple of years earlier. She had seemed fine, then one day appeared lighter in color. They next day she was dead. So, I suspect you have just experienced the normal losses you would have in a fairly high population density. Of course, that doesn't make you feel any better about losing a valued fish.
Image

User avatar
Emma Turner
Posts: 8901
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
Location: Peterborough, UK
Contact:

Post by Emma Turner » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:59 am

Aw, Les (and Susan), sorry to hear the sad news. :cry:

I've managed to get one of your pics to come up, but not the other :? :

Image

Emma
Image
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
Image

User avatar
LES..
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Post by LES.. » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:48 pm

Thank you for the feedback Jim and Emma, Well it's my first post using picasaweb photo hosting so something was bound to go wrong... This should link directly to the full size image, please let me know if it is still not working:
http://lh6.google.co.uk/image/dienyddio ... G_0885.JPG
If that fails try:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dienyddio ... 5739847922

I'm 80% sure that this was a natural death and i'm just being paranoid that something nasty has got into the tank.
I hope that i'm going to be able to sort out the overcrowding problem in the next two weeks, the new tank is being fitted out with its manifold system at the moment but progress is slow as i am not being allowed to cut things in the house, with work and the weather only bits of the weekends are left. The good news is that most of the cutting is done and it is now down to fitting bits together and going overboard with the silicone sealant to hold it all in place. If things go to plan i'll have it ready to fill this week. Filter media has been sat in the existing tank for over a month now so i'm hoping for a near instant cycle.

User avatar
Graeme Robson
Posts: 9096
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:34 am
Location: Peterborough, UK
Contact:

Post by Graeme Robson » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:50 pm

I understand your feelings Les. The other week a male Sewellia lineolata died. :cry: Head injures of some sort.

Image
Image

User avatar
Jim Powers
Posts: 5208
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:15 pm
Location: Bloomington, Indiana

Post by Jim Powers » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:01 pm

How sad, Graeme. What do you suppose caused the wounds? It looks like an otherwise fat and healthy fish.
Image

User avatar
Graeme Robson
Posts: 9096
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:34 am
Location: Peterborough, UK
Contact:

Post by Graeme Robson » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:13 pm

Not 100% sure, Jim. A couple of males have been fighting on the back wall near the top water line. Maybe a head injury with hitting something near or out of the water. :?
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 229 guests