My alpha loach has been flapping his gills rapidly. The runt loach just died tonight and I think the alpha loach found out. He is so sad that the alpha put his belly up against the side of the tank right next to me. The loach is sitting there on his side looking at me in the blue moon light and allowing me to almost pet his belly through the glass. I don't know what else I can do?
Does this sound like normal behavior to anyone?
The loach would let me get close to him in the blue moon light but not usually this comfortable.
Now Im looking closer. Please help
water temp is 78 degrees
1) nitrates: 0-5mg/L or ppm it appears to be between 0 and 5. I cannot tell the difference on this chart. It looks like its somewhat between the two colors being orange and yellow.
2) nitrites: 0 ppm
3) ph: it appears the ph has dropped significantly to 6.0-6.2. its usually 7.0. test a few days ago was 7.0 when flipper and uc were having problems.
4) ammonia: between 0-.6 ppm. this is as close as the test goes. it is more towards the clear part. but just between clear and the slightly shaded .6.
tap:
1) ammonia: 0ppm
2) ph: 7.2-7.4. woah big difference.
3) nitrite: 0ppm.
4) nitrate: 0ppm
the tap water was tested without the addition of water conditioner. this is straight tap water.
the fish has a cottony looking skin peeling like the previous fish. I don't know what to do, my alpha is having big problems now. I think I will lose him please help.....
Help Help??????Is this strange behavior?
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Help Help??????Is this strange behavior?
All your loaches are belong to me!
Odd that the Ammonia test gives you such a wide range. Up to about .25 ppm is usually tolerated by most fish for a short time. Over .25 is not usually tolerated. Perhaps the skin issue is ammonia burns?
Except that at low pH ammonia is in the less toxic NH4+ form (ammonium).
Fluttering or fast moving gills also suggests breathing or gill problems. Ammonia burns the gills, too.
If you have any Amquel, Prime, or other ammonia controlling product I would add a single dose to the tank, test the pH and ammonia and watch for half an hour, then re-test the pH and ammonia. If no improvement, and the pH has not changed, try an additional half dose.
Here is why I am suggesting this: Your ammonia test is inconclusive. The range could mean anything from "no problem" to "Desperate emergency". Your fish is suggesting there IS a problem.
When in doubt, play it safe. Pretend there IS a major problem with ammonia, and add whatever you have to control ammonia.
However:
Some ammonia products have some issues with lowering the pH. Your other post hints that there might be low KH, which is carbonates that buffer the pH. Some ammonia removing products say NOT to use if the KH is too low.
On the other hand, I could suggest that baking soda will raise the KH and likely the pH, but at lower pH ammonia is less toxic. Get a carbonate (KH) test before trying anything with the pH. (I will go into much greater detail in your other post about pH)
You can add zeolite (white or grey cat-littler-like stuff) to the filter. This will remove the Ammonia overnight, then change it in the morning so it will continue working.
Except that at low pH ammonia is in the less toxic NH4+ form (ammonium).
Fluttering or fast moving gills also suggests breathing or gill problems. Ammonia burns the gills, too.
If you have any Amquel, Prime, or other ammonia controlling product I would add a single dose to the tank, test the pH and ammonia and watch for half an hour, then re-test the pH and ammonia. If no improvement, and the pH has not changed, try an additional half dose.
Here is why I am suggesting this: Your ammonia test is inconclusive. The range could mean anything from "no problem" to "Desperate emergency". Your fish is suggesting there IS a problem.
When in doubt, play it safe. Pretend there IS a major problem with ammonia, and add whatever you have to control ammonia.
However:
Some ammonia products have some issues with lowering the pH. Your other post hints that there might be low KH, which is carbonates that buffer the pH. Some ammonia removing products say NOT to use if the KH is too low.
On the other hand, I could suggest that baking soda will raise the KH and likely the pH, but at lower pH ammonia is less toxic. Get a carbonate (KH) test before trying anything with the pH. (I will go into much greater detail in your other post about pH)
You can add zeolite (white or grey cat-littler-like stuff) to the filter. This will remove the Ammonia overnight, then change it in the morning so it will continue working.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
mike. i posted tests from the tap above. no ammonia or nitrates or nitrites. ph is 7.2.
i checked this morning and the big loach seems fine. all other loaches are playing like nothing happened. the middle sized loach keeps swimming vertically non stop for two days.
i think big loach was searching for his best friend(runt loach) that died. i think he was just really sad.
i hope that is all.
i checked this morning and the big loach seems fine. all other loaches are playing like nothing happened. the middle sized loach keeps swimming vertically non stop for two days.
i think big loach was searching for his best friend(runt loach) that died. i think he was just really sad.
i hope that is all.
All your loaches are belong to me!
I think it is entirely possible that a clown loach, especially a big one, can feel loss. I know that my two big guys would feel very disoriented and quite possibly depressed if I ever separated them (despite how much they spar...). I know this because they are almost always together and they very often snuggle with each other (kind of like a married couple, huh?)
Now, I've also been able to get close to my big clowns when they sleep against the wall. I've even been able to touch their bellies through the glass like you have. Sometimes, you simply catch the fish in such a deep state of sleep that the fish doesn't notice. They usually swim away as soon as they sense you.
Do more disruptive movements cause the fish to get up? If not... then I'm thinking the issue is just as described above. It doesn't sound like it's a disease, but some sort of water issue. Have you been doing any water changes with the ammonia treatments?
I'm glad that your fish seem better. that also indicates that it was a water issue.
Now, I've also been able to get close to my big clowns when they sleep against the wall. I've even been able to touch their bellies through the glass like you have. Sometimes, you simply catch the fish in such a deep state of sleep that the fish doesn't notice. They usually swim away as soon as they sense you.
Do more disruptive movements cause the fish to get up? If not... then I'm thinking the issue is just as described above. It doesn't sound like it's a disease, but some sort of water issue. Have you been doing any water changes with the ammonia treatments?
I'm glad that your fish seem better. that also indicates that it was a water issue.
Could it be that you have Old tank syndrome, as mentioned in an recent post?
What you have mentioned so far is pretty much in line with OTS, has your PH dropped any further today?
I think ammonia reduces in toxicity with PH but i'm fairly sure its only at its most non-toxic at a PH of 5.5 or below....
Anyhow, worth a wonder.
Sorry for your loss.
What you have mentioned so far is pretty much in line with OTS, has your PH dropped any further today?
I think ammonia reduces in toxicity with PH but i'm fairly sure its only at its most non-toxic at a PH of 5.5 or below....
Anyhow, worth a wonder.
Sorry for your loss.
Live your life like a hillstream loach; move fast, if things get rough cling on no matter what and eat your greens.
yeah he seemed very very sad. i stuck with him for a few hours. its almost like he was swimming near the top of the tank looking for his buddy. he was looking right at me and my girfriend and interacting with us. so i don't think he was deep in sleep. he just swam right up. i put my hand against the glass, he layed on his side and i kinda rubbed his belly and he sat there.Icewall42 wrote:I think it is entirely possible that a clown loach, especially a big one, can feel loss. I know that my two big guys would feel very disoriented and quite possibly depressed if I ever separated them (despite how much they spar...). I know this because they are almost always together and they very often snuggle with each other (kind of like a married couple, huh?)
Now, I've also been able to get close to my big clowns when they sleep against the wall. I've even been able to touch their bellies through the glass like you have. Sometimes, you simply catch the fish in such a deep state of sleep that the fish doesn't notice. They usually swim away as soon as they sense you.
Do more disruptive movements cause the fish to get up? If not... then I'm thinking the issue is just as described above. It doesn't sound like it's a disease, but some sort of water issue. Have you been doing any water changes with the ammonia treatments?
I'm glad that your fish seem better. that also indicates that it was a water issue.
i have done a water change at least daily. only about 25% recently. i will mostl likely do one when i get home.
the rapid gill movement seems to be the case everytime i get real close to the loach. he seems to move the gills at a regular pace when im far away. when im close, the gills move quickly. maybe its fear. i don't know. none of the other loaches are moving gills rapidly.
All your loaches are belong to me!
LO this is why I removed my substrate,to remove factors that change water. Clean your gravel real well in half the tank , then again tommorrow the same with the other half. Make sure the sump on that filter on the back is clean in the bottom with a flashlight or something. We all want to help you so much. I would remove the gravel from your tank if it was me and when things are better replace it with sand that will not let crap accumulate in it like your large gravel does or is.. This is what I feel is causing your problems.You can check by Siphoning rocks and poop out at the same time in a bucket with a big hose but only part at a time over a few days.If the rocks are giving up poop then you have old tank syndrome which would explain your ph changes because of accumulated stuff. I had no substrate for years and only added it back for comfort because of this forum. It is not neccesary for life and is PROBABLY your problem and doing more harm than good right NOW. I feel this is a water quality issue also and this MAY be a cure. No more than 20-25 percent changes now, your fish are stressed and your tank needs time....
Well, I'm a firm believer that loaches have tons of personality and are very individual. I'm going to say that your clown sensed the loss, but personification is a tricky thing.... the loaches sadness might not necessarily be the same as it is for us, but it certainly could be similar.
That's my belief. I definitely know when my loaches are happy!
That's my belief. I definitely know when my loaches are happy!
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