Clown Loach "white Spot, Depressed,dying!", Not su

[Eigdoog]

Hello,

Well to start with i had very bad nitrIte way past 3.3 and at the same time i had white spot with some fin rot on one angel fish. I did a water change for the nitrIte and now it is 0.1, the angel fish still has fin rot (i started treating it but had to stop as the nitrIte) and as for the white spot it has almost gone but maybe 3 spots in my tank all told.

However my Clown Loach who had the worst white spot out of the two is now very pale and is looking for somewhere to rest and not swimming right at all (i think he is dying ) at the moment he is resting on his side on an ornament but will not rest on the floor as he has been on the filter and the heater, but if i go to look at him then he will sometimes swim away or stay there breathing.

What should i do about my loach and what is up with him ???


Eigdoog

[mikev]

Sorry about your problem.

From your post it would seem that your clown has Ich, probably in the gills, and the problem is aggravated by the nitrite spike which damaged its immune system.

You did not mention if you are treating for Ich at all. If not, you must, and immediately. It may be too late for the affected clown, but you have other fish to take care of. Get Ich Guard, or RidIch+, or a similar Malachite Green-based med from your lfs.

Even before you get the meds, increase the aeration in the tank to the max possible, and start raising temperature slowly toward 86F.

If you are treating for ich already, please state what exactly has been done so far.

As a general rule: fin rot is not immediately life-threatening, so stopping because of a nitrite spike makes some sense. But not so with Ich: it is much more dangerous than a nitrite spike, so stopping the treatment for ich would have been a mistake.

Good luck.

[Eigdoog]

Well i have started treating ich for about a week now and thats why everything has been getin better then this happens

[shari2]

Can you tell us more about your tank? Size, filtration, temp, other occupants, water test results (more than just the nitrate)?

mikev is correct that if there is ich in the tank at all--even one or two spots, then the ich is still reproducing in your tank and will take over again, especially on weakened fish. For any ich treatment you need to continue treating for several days after all signs of spots are gone. It usually affects the gill membranes of fish first, so their breathing becomes compromised. Is your clown breathing fast? More oxygen in the water is needed asap. One good way to do that is to simply lower your tank's water level to allow the return flow to splash and disturb the surface. Noisy, but effective.

[mikev]

Well i have started treating ich for about a week now and thats why everything has been getin better then this happens

There is no such thing as half-cured ich...if you relax and stop treatment, it comes back, and occasionally comes back in a more resistant form...

Please give more details, as shari2 asked, but also specify exactly how you treated so far. This would allow for better understanding on how to proceed now.

[Eigdoog]

Well i do have alot of air going into my tank with a 14" bubble maker (a long tube which thousands of bubbles come out) and my filter can also make bubbles come out so there must be quite alot of oxygen in the tank already. I have actually added an oxygen plant today.

I am still treating the whitespot, i have been treating it for roughly a week now. The treatment is called King British "ws3" whitespot terminator. It DOES say to do half treatments so not to disturb the loaches because they have no scales, which i have been doing.

My tank size is 4 foot, 47 gallon tank. My filter is a "uni filter" which has a UV filter built in. The temperature of my tank is now 79-82f. I have 3 angel fish, 2 clown loaches, 2 sword tails, 1 red rainbow fish, 3 unidentified fish (not sure what they are called but are only small). Nitrite level is now at 0.1.

I have just had another look at my tank and BOTH loaches are doing it. One is rested on the heater, and the other is rested on the filter. Both look dead but they still swim around every now and then.

Any more ideas ?

[mikev]

Contrary to intuition, bubble makers produce less oxygen than a lowered water level with HOB, so I'do what shari2 said. Short-term, O2 is the only hope your fish will survive.

Now, ws3 does not publish the ingredients, but I believe them to be Acriflavine, Malachite Green and Quinine -- this is a pretty good mix.

It may be that because of excessive W/C and already lowered dosing that the med did not do its work yet (you had to redose immediately after w/c -- did you?)...but it also happens quite often that Ich takes longer than a week to deal with.

I'd say, increase O2, and continue treatment. Slowly (over several hours) to 86F, this will make the med work faster. Try to suppress nitrites with Prime rather than extra W/C's, but if you do W/C's, redose right after them.

good luck

[shari2]

Your tank is not stocked too heavily, but something must have caused the nitrite spike. Do you have any decaying plants, or have you recently cleaned the filters or used antibiotics? Whatever the case, your biofilter has been compromised in some way and needs to rebuild.

Also, clowns will lay around on their sides, effectively looking like they are playing dead, but if you look at their eyes they follow you and when disturbed will scoot off. Takes a lot of new loach keepers by surprise. It's a common misconception that loaches are 'scaleless' fish, but this is not true. They simply have very small scales.

It's not surprising that they should be feeling poorly given the water issue and the medication, and hanging about by the filter may also be an indication that he's seeking higher oxygen levels. The place where oxygen exchange happens is at the surface of the water. A moving surface is your best way to get oxygen into the tank. Warmer water will hold less oxygen than cooler water will so at this stage keeping that water moving at the surface is very important.

Keep treating for the ich until you see all signs of ich gone for at least 4 days, otherwise it will come back and possibly be resistant to the medication (as mike said) then you'll have a serious problem. When you change water, which you can do during treatment, (especially given that your nitrite is up), be sure you add back in to the refill water the appropriate amount of meds to bring the refill back to the same level that's in the tank.

Once the ich is gone, and the nitrite is under control, frequent water changes all by themselves may well deal with the angels fin rot. It is often a sign of deteriorating water quality and improves on its own as the water quality improves.

[grizzlyone]

Also, I can't say it enough. Get a bottle of Prime from Seachem. You can get it at Petsmart or Petco and most over LFSs


Forget Amqel and all the others. It will keep ammonia, nitrate, nitrites, chlorine, etc from being toxic to your fish and will also let your biofilter do its job and become mature.

Its a shame to see people pouring all these other chemicals that remove the problem, but don't let the bacteria that you need to have in the system flourish.

If you use in in the prescribed maint doses,you will not have any of these dangerous spikes that can hurt your fish. Its that simple.

I've had other problems but I've never had a death due to ammonia or nitrates.


Its sad to see fish die for lack of a $9.99 bottle of Prime that will last you six months or so.


Kevin

[Diana]

WHen you are treating for Ich, do lots of gravel vacs. Ich falls off the fish and reproduces on the floor of the tank. THe total water change need not be very much (just enough to keep the Nitrite down) but do as thorough a gravel vac as you can each time.

Nitrite also causes a problem with the fish's blood, so that it cannot carry oxygen. (google Brown Blood Disease for more info) Sodium Chloride salt at the rate of 1 teaspoon (5 ml) per 20 gallons (American or Imperial does not matter) is a very low level dose of salt, but will interfere with Nitrite crossing the gill membranes, so will reduce or stop the Brown Blood Disease.

Bubble wands only help to the extent that they create more water movement, they do not directly add oxygen to the tank. Most Loaches require highly oxygenated water, lots of water movement such that the water comes into contact with the surface to pick up more oxygen. (Think of a shallow stream, tumbling over rocks) If the fish are still having problems I would try a powerhead. Put a sponge over the intake. The powerhead will pick up water from relatively low in the tank (the area that is oxygen depleted) and can be adjusted so that it sends this water across the top of the surface, for maximum oxygenation. Be sure to coordinate all the pumps, and other water moving equipments so that they enhance each others actions, not cancel each other out.