Loaches Online Forum

I don't own any clown loach, yet. But I've seen quite a few different levels of color intensity in clown loaches on the internet. It goes from deep bright yellow to almost grey. The young ones are usually a lot more colorful than the old ones. Is there any relation between the age and color or food of the clown loach?

there is a color difference between clown loaches from Borneo and those from Sumatra, but at the moment I can't seem to locate the article on the old forum to link you to, sorry.

Younger clowns are often brightly colored and it is true that as they age and grow larger some develop white lines around their black stripes, and even white into the centers of the stripe. Take a look at some of Emma's pics or others with larger clowns.

Most likely when you see grey clowns they are photos taken when the fish is what we call 'greyed out' during an altercation of some kind with another clown.

Here's a link to the clown loach page in the species index which you can also get to from the Loaches Online link above. Lots of good info there...

http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/bo ... nthus.html

Botia macracanthus is the old name for clowns. In 2004 there was a proposed reorganization of the genus Botia and clowns are now classified as Chromobotia macracanthus.

there is a color difference between clown loaches from Borneo and those from Sumatra, but at the moment I can't seem to locate the article on the old forum to link you to, sorry.

That link would be:

http://www.loaches.com/markings.html

......which is at the bottom of the page you linked
Note to self....it needs expansion more work.

Martin.

How embarrassing Guess that's what you get when you skim too fast, eh?

thanks Martin.

Yeah...if you skim too fast, you bounce .

Martin.

Hmm... Now that I've noticed this page.

Do you know anything about the "Basil 2" variation?

I've seen a large shipment of clowns with more than half having it; actually my Spot comes from this shipment (but he does not have, obviously). I've asked about this over elsewhere and was told that there was a discussion on some forum, now apparently lost, that traced this variation to some geographic locale. Does this sound familiar, perhaps?

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Also, an observation on color-health connection: our #4 clown was originally chosen for his unusual colors: bright "lemon" yellow and black and no orange at all. After treating him with anti-parasite meds about a month ago, he, over the last month developed orange; the way it is going he will have totally normal colors for his size (2.5") in another month. Makes me think that some unusual colors (cf. dulitic clown a while ago) may be simply a sign of disease.

To illustrate what I wrote above. This our #6 clown, from the group that had lots of S-shaped striped clowns in it. His shape was not even the most pronounced, some had the bend going much lower. Still , it is the Basil 2 variation from the markings page, and this clown has a stronger bend than on the page.





PS. Martin, if you want a cleaner picture for updates markings, I can do better.

CrazyLoach - yes, bigger Clowns are not usually so bright in colour. You can view photos of some of my larger ones on the excellent Coppermine site:
http://www2.2cah.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=45

Mikev - The Clowns with these type of markings are fairly common. The ones we import are commercially bred too.



Emma

Pinching your pic for illustrative purposes Emma . I saw a Clown at Harold's that looked kind of like this yesterday:



(Quick edit job. The markings were smoother edged than this appears.)

Nice 3.5" SL fish that, had I not been off work for so long injured this month, I would seriously have considered buying, it was so attractive. I never waited to check out it's other side.

Martin.

A really nice looking fellow, Emma!!!

I have no doubts that this is relatively common, I saw twenty of them in the same shipment as my #6. What is interesting to me is that this may be a genetic trait and perhaps even a regional variation.

Actually, you are the most qualified person to answer this: do you see these S-shapes randomly in the clowns you get, or they cluster in particular shipments? If it is the 2nd case, then this is interesting, may be interesting enough to track where the shipments come from exactly. (Based on what I've seen here, it seems to be strongly clustering)

....

Wow, Martin, this one is truly unique...

10% will be variants, whilst the other 90% wont be.

These variants are now known as common specimens once found. (take your pick)

HH pictures.

ah....cute little babies!

These do not appear in clusters, just the odd random one or two within a shipment. That goes for other 'variations' too. I would say that between 5 and 10% (approx) have different markings to that of the classic Clown pattern. Some loach keepers (inlcuding myself) put this down to a result of captive breeding via hormone treatment, details of which seem to be a highly guarded trade secret.

Martin - you should ask Harold if he still has that Clown! It'd make a really nice addition to your shoal.

Emma

Shoal? Or "Troupe?"

Thank you, Emma.

I went to recheck the latest clown shipment today (about 30 shipped directly from Asia, not via a distributor), and here is what I saw:

about half have the S-shape (again!)
one has the saddle (as on Martin's drawing), one has a bottom dot (I think one of yours has it too).
The last two are obviously random events, within 5%-10% margin, but the S-shape is again a cluster, so there is something more to it.

I'm fairly sure that there is *some* connection to hormones: the other distinct feature of these clowns is their low "height" comparing to the "length". If you compare the proportions of my clown with yours you should see it easily. The S-shape/hormone connection may be real (fast growth interferes with normal stripe formation) or accidental (some farms that play with hormones also have the S-shape mutation in their breeding stock), but body proportions offer a good test.