SICK CLOWN LOACH!

[gassb]

Hi I am new to this site, am also newish to fish keeping and have been lucky to be given a tank complete with 3 15+year old clown loaches, however I am very concerned about one of them, it has become very subdude, hardly comming out at all, it's colour has faded a little and worst of all it now appears to have a lump on it's left side, I have noticed today that it's dorsal fin is slightly swollen at the base and also swollen is the area just before it's anal fin.

Am I loosing this fine fish or is there something that I can do to help it?

[Emma Turner]

Welcome to Loaches Online, gassb.

Please could you tell us a little more about the tank, which may help us to figure out what is going on:

What size is the tank?
How long ago was it moved/set up?
If it was an established tank, how long did it take to move it, and did you do anything to help keep the filter bacteria alive?
What are your current water parameters: ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, pH and hardness levels?
Can you tell us a bit about your maintenance regime, i.e. how often you clean the tank, filter & substrate, how you do this, how often you perform partial water changes and how much % of the volume (approx) do you change?
Anything new added to the tank before the problems became apparent?
What temperature are you keeping the tank at?
Any other symptoms such as redness where the swellings are or excessively laboured breathing etc?

Any chance of providing a photograph of the affected fish? Clown loaches are not the easiest of fish to keep and are therefore not the ideal choice for beginners. Providing us with as much information possible will help us to help your fish as best we can.

Emma

[gassb]

size of tank approx 36 X18 (not 100% sure)
Was moved 3 months ago
It was an established tank, took approx 2 hours to move, we did not change any of the filter media at all
Have never done PH etc. levels, though the water in this area is hard.
The tank is cleaned (glass scraped, gravel cleaned filter cleaned) once a month, a 50% partial water change is done every other week.
We did not add or change anything before the problem started, thought it best to keep as it was for a good few months as it had been quite a big move for the tank.
Temperature is at 75
There is excessive breathing, but no redness etc.

I wll try and get a photo and add it later, but at the moment can't

Thanks for replying.

[Emma Turner]

Thank you for your reply.

Ok, there appear to be a few issues with this set up, which won't be helping matters. First off, you need to test the water or get it tested by your lfs as soon as is possible (the quicker this is done, the quicker we can rule out water quality problems and advise further). You need to test for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, pH and if you can, hardness.

You may not want to hear this, but if the tank is only 36" long, it is too small for clown loaches - even juveniles. At 15+ years, I would expect the fish to be at least 9"+ TL (total length). If they are not, the conditions they have been kept in will have stunted them. A larger tank in the near future is important, but there are clearly more urgent matters to address.

The temperature is on the cool side, you need to increase this to 80-82 deg F for clown loaches. Other fish may not be comfortable with this temperature, but 75 is too cold for clown loaches. This is an additional factor which won't be helping their stress levels.

When keeping fish at high-end tropical temperatures, it is very important to increase oxygenation within the aquarium as there will be less oxygen available to the fish at higher temps. If you don't already have a powerhead, you should think about adding one to the tank to create extra flow for the loaches, and angle the flow diverter upwards to ensure that the water is rippling at the surface. It is this churning that incorporates more oxygen into the water, air pumps have minimal effect as the only oxygen that enters the water from those is where the bubbles break at the water's surface. What sort of filtration are you using, is it appropriate for the size of the tank and stocking level? Again, if you are not sure, post the make/model and double check the size of the tank and we'll be able to advise. To maximise aeration in my clown loach tank, I tend to leave a slightly dropped water level (approx 1" from the top of the tank) so that the water returning from the filters splashes down onto the water's surafce. A quick action such as this may help the heavily breathing fish to feel a little more comfortable.

Another problem I see is that the water changes that you are carrying out are not happening frequently enough and they are too big. It is better to change 25% twice a week, rather than cause stress to the fish by changing 50% in one go, where the new water chemistry & temp may be very different to that of your tank water. This not only causes major stress to the fish, but if the water is a lot cooler in temperature, could affect the beneficial bacteria in the filter. I personally change 20% of the water in my clown loach aquarium 4 times per week. They are river fish and as such need clean (dechlorinated) water.

With regards to the filter, could you describe roughly what you do when you clean it?

If you could let us know the results of the water tests ASAP, it will be easier to recommend what you should do next. If you haven;t carried out a water change for a few days, I would suggest you do a 25% change straight away. Good clean conditions help immensely where fish that are poorly are concerned.

Emma

[gassb]

Thanks for your reply,

We were aware that the tank is too small and there are plans underway to move to a bigger one.

We have upped the temperature to 80, and funnily we had already dropped the water level by an inch so that there was more a turbulant flow, we do also have an air stone along the back of the tank which is on as well.

The filteration is a Fluval 205, the tank measurers 36L, 15H and 15D

When the filter is cleaned it is normally taken apart and all the media is rinsed in a bucket of the water that has been removed from the tank, hubby normally does this so not 100 percent sure, he does not clean it totally only removes excess.

I have tested for

Ph 7.6
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0.50

When we first got given the tank, there was approximately 60 guppies in there as well, these we have removed and passed onto a colleague, as we realised that it was very over crowded. Now all we have is the loach (3), Corydoris(2) and 4 male guppies.

In respect of the loach that is ill, the swelling near the anal fin is now rather large and there appears to be a small red dot on the opening.

[Emma Turner]

Hi there,

A photograph would speak a thousand words in this situation. However, from the description so far, it sounds like some sort of bacterial infection.

You shouldn't have any nitrIte present in an established tank, this is not ideal and will be causing problems for the fish, particularly the clowns which are more sensitive. How often are you feeding, and how much? You should cut the feeding right back to a tiny amount every other day until the nitrIte is at zero. More food equals more waste, which the filter is obviously struggling to break down at the moment.

Without seeing a picture, it is going to be difficult to diagnose, but I think that adding a mild bacterial treatment such as Melafix would be prudent. You'll need to remove the activated carbon from the filter when using treatment or it will absorb it all. Read the directions carefully because loaches are very sensitive to medications and it is important to follow the recommended dosage. Having said all this, the lump could be some sort of tumour, in which case treatments may not work.

Hopefully others will weigh in on this, but as I say, a photo is what's needed.

Best of luck,

Emma

[Ardillakilla]

Yes, you are losing the fish and it sounds like a bacterial infection secondary to poor water quality.

I would suggest a more effective antibiotic than Melafix which is the equivalent of Neosporin. You wouldn't use a mild antibiotic for a real infection.

Typically, I would isolate a fish in this situation in a hospital tank and use multiple antibiotics to cover both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Most antibiotics are not effective against both, especially those available for aquarium use thus the need to use a combination, such as Maracyn 1 & 2.

For a fish that's valuable, such as an old clown loach, I would consider finding a veterinarian who treats fish especially if you are inexperienced with treating fish yourself:

http://www.aquavets.com/index.cfm?PID=6

Believe it or not, they do see everything from Oscars to expensive koi to fish in public aquarium exhibits. And they can prescribe medications you can't get over the counter and even perform surgery.

[andre]

Yes, you are losing the fish and it sounds like a bacterial infection secondary to poor water quality.

Hi Ardillakilla, you sound like another member of this forum called mikev, are you related?

[Emma Turner]

I would hesitate to recommend anything other than Melafix at this point because (1) we do not know for sure what we are dealing with - need a photo and a more definite diagnosis and (2) there is nitrIte in the water, so caution must be advised when stressing the fish further by adding strong medications. Frequent partial water changes, cutting back on feeding and a mild treatment may be all that is needed. Without more information it is tricky.

Also, it would be helpful if gassb could add her location into her profile, as treatment suggestions provided by Ardillakilla may not be of any help if the poster is located in the UK for example, where we have tight restrictions on fish medications.

Emma

[Ardillakilla]

Any symptoms that would justify the use of Melafix would justify the use of real antibiotics.

Melafix is likely as stressful (if not more judging from the reactions some peoples' fish have had to it) and less effective. However, it may make you feel better because of its all-natural marketing angle. Aside from possible effects on the biofilter, most antibiotics are basically harmless, especially the ones available for home aquarium use, and are certainly far less dangerous than the ich medications that some people dump into their tanks with disturbing regularity.

[gassb]

We will cut back on the food and have already started the more frequent water changes.

I am desperatly trying to upload pics. for you to see, but not having much luck so far.

Thanks for the support...

[gassb]

Okay here we go (I hope)

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/gassblackwell/SickLoaches

[Ardillakilla]

I'm not sure antibiotics would fix that problem. Although a bacterial infection may be involved, it may be secondary to the actual problem. If I had no previous experience with the same exact problem in the same species, I would decide it was beyond my abilities and take the fish to the vet.

[Mark in Vancouver]

I would recommend Melafix after a good water change. Reduce feeding and keep the water nice and clean. There may be improvement.

[gassb]

Quick update on the fish, the large lump/ulcer /growth near the anal fin has acutaly popped !

So the concensus is to use Melafix, is this commonly available within fish suppliers or do I have to go elsewhere for this?