I did a 25% water change yesterday and once again had problems. All my fish were ok for about 3 hours I tried letting the water age as suggested. Then all my fish (that I have left) were hanging at the top of the aquarium except for one harlequin rasbora that was shivering at the bottom of the tank. At this point, having lost all my loaches and one beautful gourami I'm pulling my hair out and dread water changes.
I've run out of ideas and options. My params were fine nothing unusual. ARGGHH!!
Louise
Nightmare continues!
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
This is really bad.
I am probably going on too long here, but this seems a complex problem, with not a lot of answers at this point. I remember your post from a week or two ago, but some people may not, so some of this may be repetitious. Still, something here may ring a bell with you and you might see an answer that applies to your tank and situation.
The gasping a the top is suggestive of oxygen deficiency, but can be triggered by any of several things that affect the gills, and make it difficult for the fish to get the oxygen they need.
Can you test again the tap water for all the things you test the tank for, both fresh out of the tap, and test some aged tap water (24 hours minimum, with water movement if possible). Also post the most recent tank water test results.
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
GH
KH
salinity
TDS
any other test you may have.
You might call the water company (if there is one; Is this municipal water?) and ask them what might be in the water doing this.
Post back with a list of everything you are using in the tank, such as dechlor, pH regulating sorts of products, slime coat enhancers and anything else.
Here is how these things can affect the fish respiration and other functions:
Ammonia: Burns the fishes' gills. Think of the worst sore throat you have ever had, so bad it hurts to breathe. There are a couple of things to do if the tap water contains ammonia.
One is to use a dechlorinator that locks up ammonia. Prime, Amquel Plus or other dechlorinator may help. Read the label. Caution: Some dechlor will not react well with some test kits, so that you will not get an accurate reading for ammonia when the dechlor is in the water. Check the label on both test and dechlor, and check the web site for both. Use a test kit suggested by the manufacturer of the dechlor to get the proper ammonia test result. Do not use more and more dechlor just because a test says there is ammonia. Your test may be reading the locked up ammonia.
Another is to try to out gas the ammonia by vigorously agitating the water. A small pump, running overnight may do this, but it may not, too.
Treating the water before using it in the tank by running it through a filter with zeolite. (see BotiaMaximum's post about DIY reverse Osmosis) See below about other pre-use treatment options.
Nitrite: enters the blood stream via the gills and combines with the blood in a way that makes the blood not carry oxygen very well. For more info google 'Brown Blood Disease'. The same problem affects mammals (including people), so you might add the word 'fish' to your search.
The temporary solution is to add anything with chloride in it to the water, such as table salt (sodium chloride). The chloride in the water somehow stops most of the nitrite from crossing the gills. The dose is 1 teaspoon of table salt per 20 gallons on water.
Another part of the solution is to use a dechlor that locks up nitrite. Prime and Amquel Plus do this. There may be other dechlorinators that do this.
Nitrate: Is a general stress to the fish, but I do not know of specific respiratory problems associated with it. There are nitrate removing media that you can add to the filter, either to prepare the tap water before use (again, see BotiaMaximum's post) or to use in the tank, if it turns out that tap water is going to be a major problem, and you must restrict your water changes. (See below for more of this concept)
GH, and KH are more of an indication of the TDS (total dissolved solids) for the purposes of this post. If the TDS of the tank water is much higher than the TDS of the tap water, and you do a large water change that drops the TDS too much (such as enough that the GH in the tank drops by more than about 1 German degree of hardness) then the fishes' osmoregulatory system can be stressed. This may result in respiratory symptoms that you are seeing, though more commonly these fish will drift in the tank at odd orientation (sideways or up-side-down) and not be able to orient themselves properly.
pH: Fish can handle more of a change in pH than the old literature seems to suggest, as long as the TDS (see GH and KH) remains the same. Still, a wide change in pH can cause some problems. The fish are used to making their body chemistry work with a certain mineral content and a certain pH of the water. When this changes (I am talking about pH here, mineral content is discussed with GH and KH) the pH can cause some problems, but usually only when the change is really extreme.
pH Up and pH Down sorts of products may be strong acids or alkalies that can burn the fishes' gills.
Salinity: If you are accustomed to adding salt to the tank, and you forget or alter the dose, then the fish will undergo the stress that is discussed under GH and KH, the osmoregulatory stress of changing TDS.
TDS: See also GH and KH.
TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. This is the content of all the minerals and salts dissolved in the water. The fish regulate the amount of water in their body to balance what the TDS of the water is. When water enters their body their osmoregulatory system works to get rid of excess water, and hang onto needed minerals. When the TDS of the water changes, especially if it drops, the fish have a hard time adjusting their osmoregulatory system to meet the new demands.
I am not sure that this results in respiratory distress, though.
Dechorinator: If the water company adds chlorine or chloramine to the water these are toxic to the fish. Dechlorinator helps by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond, and locking up both chlorine and ammonia. Not all dechlorinators will lock up ammonia, though.
If your water company is using chloramine, and your dechlor is not locking up ammonia then your tank may have free ammonia in the water long enough to cause distress to the fish. Read the label on the dechlor. Call the water company to see if they are using chlorine, or chloramine. Check how much they are using. The regular dose of dechlorinator is generally enough to deal with the average amount of chlorine or chloramine used by most water companies, but sometimes the water company will use more for example if there has been a break in the water line, or some suspicious event with the water supply. Dechlor can usually be used at double or even a triple dose to lock up excess ammonia in the tank or tap water, but read the label to be sure.
Slime Coat Enhancers work in either of two ways.
One is goo that is added to the water, such as Aloe vera gel and other things that stick to the fish. These sorts of products can cause respiratory distress if they coat the gills.
The other way slime coat enhancers work is by adding an irritant to the water. When fishes' skin is irritated they tend to produce more slime coat. I do not know if this irritant causes respiratory symptoms, but I avoid either of these sorts of products.
If your tap water turns out to be toxic to the fish here are some various things to do. Whether it is worth doing is up to you. The alternative is buying RO (reverse osmosis), distilled or other bottled water to do water changes with.
Reverse Osmosis.
Filter systems that can be used for the whole house, or just one faucet, or temporary shelf units just to prepare the water for the aquarium.
RO water has so few minerals in it that it is too pure to be used by itself. You will have to add some minerals to make this water appropriate for the fish. I use baking soda to raise the KH and Seachem Equilibrium or Barr's GH booster to raise the GH.
Prepare the water ahead of time and filter it though various media that you will research and test. (See Botia Maximum's post). Whatever you find is toxic in the tap water ought to be removed. There are filter media that can remove many different toxins. Lets find out what the toxins are.
Prepare the water ahead of time and filter it though a living filter of aquatic plants. This can make a showy aquarium all by itself. Live plants will remove a lot of toxins from the water, not just the minerals they use as fertilizer. The basic set up and method is this: Use the water from this planted filter for a water change, then refill this tank with tap water, with dechlorinator, and perhaps other things added. Run this tank for several days or a week, then use this water for water changes, and refill with tap water. You want to keep the plants growing well so they will keep removing whatever the problem chemical is. Prune the plants as often as needed. Each pruning is removing some of the toxin. Do not allow dead leaves to decompose in the tank, this is releasing the toxin back into the system. This sort of living filter needs very good light to keep the plants thriving, and you may have to add some fertilizer to help the plants.
You can also filter the tank water though a set up like this, with a separate tank or something to grow more plants in than would fit in the tank. Pond set ups take advantage of plant filtration by having a separate pond that the fish cannot get to (often pond fish eat plants) that will remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphates and other things from the water. You cannot use just one of these for both pre-treatment and ongoing treatment of course. You would need two tanks if you wanted to do both.
You can heavily plant the aquarium. Plants in the aquarium can remove a lot of toxins. This is not likely to be the only solution to the current issue, though. If the toxin in the tap water is so potent that you cannot even do water changes without losing fish, then I do not see plants in the tank acting fast enough to make water changes safe. Live plants in the tank will, however purify the water well enough that you can get by with significantly fewer and smaller water changes, so you will not have to prepare anywhere near as much water for a water change.
To keep the plants thriving in the tank you will need to set up enough light, fertilizer, perhaps CO2 or a substitute source of carbon to keep the plants thriving. Same as the planted pre-filter, pruning the old leaves, and removing them before they die is part of the key. It is like using the plants as a filter, and 'cleaning' the filter media to remove the toxins.
Sorry this went on so long, or repeated anything that was covered in your first post. I figured it is better to repeat the information all in one place and perhaps generate some more ideas as to what might be going on.
I am probably going on too long here, but this seems a complex problem, with not a lot of answers at this point. I remember your post from a week or two ago, but some people may not, so some of this may be repetitious. Still, something here may ring a bell with you and you might see an answer that applies to your tank and situation.
The gasping a the top is suggestive of oxygen deficiency, but can be triggered by any of several things that affect the gills, and make it difficult for the fish to get the oxygen they need.
Can you test again the tap water for all the things you test the tank for, both fresh out of the tap, and test some aged tap water (24 hours minimum, with water movement if possible). Also post the most recent tank water test results.
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
GH
KH
salinity
TDS
any other test you may have.
You might call the water company (if there is one; Is this municipal water?) and ask them what might be in the water doing this.
Post back with a list of everything you are using in the tank, such as dechlor, pH regulating sorts of products, slime coat enhancers and anything else.
Here is how these things can affect the fish respiration and other functions:
Ammonia: Burns the fishes' gills. Think of the worst sore throat you have ever had, so bad it hurts to breathe. There are a couple of things to do if the tap water contains ammonia.
One is to use a dechlorinator that locks up ammonia. Prime, Amquel Plus or other dechlorinator may help. Read the label. Caution: Some dechlor will not react well with some test kits, so that you will not get an accurate reading for ammonia when the dechlor is in the water. Check the label on both test and dechlor, and check the web site for both. Use a test kit suggested by the manufacturer of the dechlor to get the proper ammonia test result. Do not use more and more dechlor just because a test says there is ammonia. Your test may be reading the locked up ammonia.
Another is to try to out gas the ammonia by vigorously agitating the water. A small pump, running overnight may do this, but it may not, too.
Treating the water before using it in the tank by running it through a filter with zeolite. (see BotiaMaximum's post about DIY reverse Osmosis) See below about other pre-use treatment options.
Nitrite: enters the blood stream via the gills and combines with the blood in a way that makes the blood not carry oxygen very well. For more info google 'Brown Blood Disease'. The same problem affects mammals (including people), so you might add the word 'fish' to your search.
The temporary solution is to add anything with chloride in it to the water, such as table salt (sodium chloride). The chloride in the water somehow stops most of the nitrite from crossing the gills. The dose is 1 teaspoon of table salt per 20 gallons on water.
Another part of the solution is to use a dechlor that locks up nitrite. Prime and Amquel Plus do this. There may be other dechlorinators that do this.
Nitrate: Is a general stress to the fish, but I do not know of specific respiratory problems associated with it. There are nitrate removing media that you can add to the filter, either to prepare the tap water before use (again, see BotiaMaximum's post) or to use in the tank, if it turns out that tap water is going to be a major problem, and you must restrict your water changes. (See below for more of this concept)
GH, and KH are more of an indication of the TDS (total dissolved solids) for the purposes of this post. If the TDS of the tank water is much higher than the TDS of the tap water, and you do a large water change that drops the TDS too much (such as enough that the GH in the tank drops by more than about 1 German degree of hardness) then the fishes' osmoregulatory system can be stressed. This may result in respiratory symptoms that you are seeing, though more commonly these fish will drift in the tank at odd orientation (sideways or up-side-down) and not be able to orient themselves properly.
pH: Fish can handle more of a change in pH than the old literature seems to suggest, as long as the TDS (see GH and KH) remains the same. Still, a wide change in pH can cause some problems. The fish are used to making their body chemistry work with a certain mineral content and a certain pH of the water. When this changes (I am talking about pH here, mineral content is discussed with GH and KH) the pH can cause some problems, but usually only when the change is really extreme.
pH Up and pH Down sorts of products may be strong acids or alkalies that can burn the fishes' gills.
Salinity: If you are accustomed to adding salt to the tank, and you forget or alter the dose, then the fish will undergo the stress that is discussed under GH and KH, the osmoregulatory stress of changing TDS.
TDS: See also GH and KH.
TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. This is the content of all the minerals and salts dissolved in the water. The fish regulate the amount of water in their body to balance what the TDS of the water is. When water enters their body their osmoregulatory system works to get rid of excess water, and hang onto needed minerals. When the TDS of the water changes, especially if it drops, the fish have a hard time adjusting their osmoregulatory system to meet the new demands.
I am not sure that this results in respiratory distress, though.
Dechorinator: If the water company adds chlorine or chloramine to the water these are toxic to the fish. Dechlorinator helps by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond, and locking up both chlorine and ammonia. Not all dechlorinators will lock up ammonia, though.
If your water company is using chloramine, and your dechlor is not locking up ammonia then your tank may have free ammonia in the water long enough to cause distress to the fish. Read the label on the dechlor. Call the water company to see if they are using chlorine, or chloramine. Check how much they are using. The regular dose of dechlorinator is generally enough to deal with the average amount of chlorine or chloramine used by most water companies, but sometimes the water company will use more for example if there has been a break in the water line, or some suspicious event with the water supply. Dechlor can usually be used at double or even a triple dose to lock up excess ammonia in the tank or tap water, but read the label to be sure.
Slime Coat Enhancers work in either of two ways.
One is goo that is added to the water, such as Aloe vera gel and other things that stick to the fish. These sorts of products can cause respiratory distress if they coat the gills.
The other way slime coat enhancers work is by adding an irritant to the water. When fishes' skin is irritated they tend to produce more slime coat. I do not know if this irritant causes respiratory symptoms, but I avoid either of these sorts of products.
If your tap water turns out to be toxic to the fish here are some various things to do. Whether it is worth doing is up to you. The alternative is buying RO (reverse osmosis), distilled or other bottled water to do water changes with.
Reverse Osmosis.
Filter systems that can be used for the whole house, or just one faucet, or temporary shelf units just to prepare the water for the aquarium.
RO water has so few minerals in it that it is too pure to be used by itself. You will have to add some minerals to make this water appropriate for the fish. I use baking soda to raise the KH and Seachem Equilibrium or Barr's GH booster to raise the GH.
Prepare the water ahead of time and filter it though various media that you will research and test. (See Botia Maximum's post). Whatever you find is toxic in the tap water ought to be removed. There are filter media that can remove many different toxins. Lets find out what the toxins are.
Prepare the water ahead of time and filter it though a living filter of aquatic plants. This can make a showy aquarium all by itself. Live plants will remove a lot of toxins from the water, not just the minerals they use as fertilizer. The basic set up and method is this: Use the water from this planted filter for a water change, then refill this tank with tap water, with dechlorinator, and perhaps other things added. Run this tank for several days or a week, then use this water for water changes, and refill with tap water. You want to keep the plants growing well so they will keep removing whatever the problem chemical is. Prune the plants as often as needed. Each pruning is removing some of the toxin. Do not allow dead leaves to decompose in the tank, this is releasing the toxin back into the system. This sort of living filter needs very good light to keep the plants thriving, and you may have to add some fertilizer to help the plants.
You can also filter the tank water though a set up like this, with a separate tank or something to grow more plants in than would fit in the tank. Pond set ups take advantage of plant filtration by having a separate pond that the fish cannot get to (often pond fish eat plants) that will remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphates and other things from the water. You cannot use just one of these for both pre-treatment and ongoing treatment of course. You would need two tanks if you wanted to do both.
You can heavily plant the aquarium. Plants in the aquarium can remove a lot of toxins. This is not likely to be the only solution to the current issue, though. If the toxin in the tap water is so potent that you cannot even do water changes without losing fish, then I do not see plants in the tank acting fast enough to make water changes safe. Live plants in the tank will, however purify the water well enough that you can get by with significantly fewer and smaller water changes, so you will not have to prepare anywhere near as much water for a water change.
To keep the plants thriving in the tank you will need to set up enough light, fertilizer, perhaps CO2 or a substitute source of carbon to keep the plants thriving. Same as the planted pre-filter, pruning the old leaves, and removing them before they die is part of the key. It is like using the plants as a filter, and 'cleaning' the filter media to remove the toxins.
Sorry this went on so long, or repeated anything that was covered in your first post. I figured it is better to repeat the information all in one place and perhaps generate some more ideas as to what might be going on.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Just thought of something else:
Do you have more than one tank? Is this problem only happening in one tank and not the other?
What sort of decor (rocks, substrate) are in this tank. Long shot (never heard of this) but maybe something in the tap water (or an additive such as dechlor, pH altering material or other additive) is reacting with the minerals in the rocks or substrate and creating something toxic.
Do you see any bubbles right on the rocks or substrate?
Do you have more than one tank? Is this problem only happening in one tank and not the other?
What sort of decor (rocks, substrate) are in this tank. Long shot (never heard of this) but maybe something in the tap water (or an additive such as dechlor, pH altering material or other additive) is reacting with the minerals in the rocks or substrate and creating something toxic.
Do you see any bubbles right on the rocks or substrate?
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Diana, thank you for your post but I am so sick of writing down what my params are, what my plants, fish, decorations etc that I just plain give up. The aging of the water actually made things worse my harlequins have never had such a bad reaction. Right now I just want to give up. I want to give what's left of my fish away before I kill them all and move on to something else.
I have been trying to get some help on this problem for over 3 months now and have answered the same questions over and over and over again on different forums. I just can't take anymore right now. Just reading your post overwhelmed me. All I wanted was a peaceful aquarium with a bit of colour and to make a good fish mom. Instead I'm stressed to death and feel so guilty every time I lose a buddy and sad when one of my favorites die.
I'm sorry I know that you are doing your best to help and I'm not cooperating but like I said I'm just not up to it.
Lou
I have been trying to get some help on this problem for over 3 months now and have answered the same questions over and over and over again on different forums. I just can't take anymore right now. Just reading your post overwhelmed me. All I wanted was a peaceful aquarium with a bit of colour and to make a good fish mom. Instead I'm stressed to death and feel so guilty every time I lose a buddy and sad when one of my favorites die.
I'm sorry I know that you are doing your best to help and I'm not cooperating but like I said I'm just not up to it.
Lou
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BotiaMaximus
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 pm
- Location: St. Pete, Florida
Louise, sorry you are going through this. If there was an easy answer it would have been obvious from the beginning, and the solution could have been easily explained.
I am afraid that in mysterious cases like this all the information we can get is nowhere near enough, but somewhere, somehow, there may be an answer. Perhaps someone who has missed your first post will join us (new members are showing up all the time.) and perhaps someone will say: I know just what is going on! Try this!
I remember a situation where someone in a certain city had mysterious fish deaths over a long time, and tried all the things you were doing. A new member from the same city joined and said: "I know what it is" and went on to explain that the water conditions in that one city made fish keeping difficult for certain reasons and to use particular remedies and methods to combat the problem.
At this point I can see 2 possibilities: The Kuhlies were sick to begin with and whatever minor issues are going on with your water were more than they could take, and the water company is doing something to the water that makes it more toxic to the fish. Something has changed. Water changes did not use to be toxic, and now they are. Tracking all possible portions of the problem may show us what is going on.
I am afraid that in mysterious cases like this all the information we can get is nowhere near enough, but somewhere, somehow, there may be an answer. Perhaps someone who has missed your first post will join us (new members are showing up all the time.) and perhaps someone will say: I know just what is going on! Try this!
I remember a situation where someone in a certain city had mysterious fish deaths over a long time, and tried all the things you were doing. A new member from the same city joined and said: "I know what it is" and went on to explain that the water conditions in that one city made fish keeping difficult for certain reasons and to use particular remedies and methods to combat the problem.
At this point I can see 2 possibilities: The Kuhlies were sick to begin with and whatever minor issues are going on with your water were more than they could take, and the water company is doing something to the water that makes it more toxic to the fish. Something has changed. Water changes did not use to be toxic, and now they are. Tracking all possible portions of the problem may show us what is going on.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Reaserching I found this-
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/foru ... .msg222028
We never knew much about this Gourami that had a "blister or is peeling on one side of his body". If it died of columnaris disease as diagnosed, then it's likely that all the fish have the same bacterial problem. With the temperature at only 20C, the disease will be slower moving.
I've seen columnaris cause all these symptoms before. Blisters, floating, gasping, and then dying. There doesn't have to be blisters either, it can just be in the gills or be internal. It is really tough or near impossible to treat. I usually quarantine the infected fish permanently and eventually euthanize the fish. Fish keeping can be really really tough. Sometimes giving up is the best thing.
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/foru ... .msg222028
We never knew much about this Gourami that had a "blister or is peeling on one side of his body". If it died of columnaris disease as diagnosed, then it's likely that all the fish have the same bacterial problem. With the temperature at only 20C, the disease will be slower moving.
I've seen columnaris cause all these symptoms before. Blisters, floating, gasping, and then dying. There doesn't have to be blisters either, it can just be in the gills or be internal. It is really tough or near impossible to treat. I usually quarantine the infected fish permanently and eventually euthanize the fish. Fish keeping can be really really tough. Sometimes giving up is the best thing.
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BotiaMaximus
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 pm
- Location: St. Pete, Florida
Yup that post is also mine. I tell you I've been on countless message boards trying to figure out what's wrong and why things are getting worse.
I'll give you a little history on my hobby.
I started last Sept I'd wanted a little aquarium for a long time and someone gave me a 10 g tank. I cycled it and bought Tiger Barbs. Of course I lost one then they all started picking on each other so I had 2 left. Anyways at that time I wasn't using Prime it was some other stuff I don't remember the name, I didn't even own a test kit nor a thermometer and apart from the fish trying to kill each other I NEVER had any problems. No floating, gasping nothing. I used to prepare my 10% water change a day in advance and just change it. The fish didn't even notice.
I decided to get a bigger aquarium so that the fish would have more room in hopes they would establish a territory and stop picking on each other. My biggest problem was finding more Barbs they were either not in any pet shops or sick. I was down to 4 originally had 5 and 2 were harassed to death.
I cycled my 25 g and put the 2 barbs in, again no problems. I researched, asked a lot of questions and decided on harlequin rasboras as they are peaceful fish and I didn't want a repeat of fish fighting. I gave the Tiger Barbs away and moved my harlequins to my new 10 gallon. I tried Oto fish in my 10 gallon but they kept dying but they are so fragile to begin with that it wasn't very surprising, sad but not surprising. I added my khulis a few at a time til I got to 6 and my rasboras to 8 then I added my 2 gouramis. I bought a beta fish (was told my last surviving oto would be fine NOT with him) Moved my Oto to the 25 g with no acclimatization because the beta was chasing him.
As of today, I have lost all my 6 kuhli loaches within a period of 1 and a half weeks, my male gourami with the strange spot I had to kill myself (very unpleasant) and one rasbora I found on the floor after last water change. My oto fish seems the hardiest but this problem is taking a toll on him too. My female gourami is coming out of hiding more I hope that's a good sign and everyone is still eating.
I have tried many different things... keeping a filter on during water changes, aging water, doing a less big water change. Using more Prime, less Prime. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't the Prime itself. These problems started happening around that time but so many changes happened together that it's hard to say. My neighbour has fish and he uses Prime without issue. I imagine we have the same water as he lives right beside me.
That's pretty much it... like I said this testing, listing etc etc has been going on for 3 months in different forums and still no answers.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Lou
I'll give you a little history on my hobby.
I started last Sept I'd wanted a little aquarium for a long time and someone gave me a 10 g tank. I cycled it and bought Tiger Barbs. Of course I lost one then they all started picking on each other so I had 2 left. Anyways at that time I wasn't using Prime it was some other stuff I don't remember the name, I didn't even own a test kit nor a thermometer and apart from the fish trying to kill each other I NEVER had any problems. No floating, gasping nothing. I used to prepare my 10% water change a day in advance and just change it. The fish didn't even notice.
I decided to get a bigger aquarium so that the fish would have more room in hopes they would establish a territory and stop picking on each other. My biggest problem was finding more Barbs they were either not in any pet shops or sick. I was down to 4 originally had 5 and 2 were harassed to death.
I cycled my 25 g and put the 2 barbs in, again no problems. I researched, asked a lot of questions and decided on harlequin rasboras as they are peaceful fish and I didn't want a repeat of fish fighting. I gave the Tiger Barbs away and moved my harlequins to my new 10 gallon. I tried Oto fish in my 10 gallon but they kept dying but they are so fragile to begin with that it wasn't very surprising, sad but not surprising. I added my khulis a few at a time til I got to 6 and my rasboras to 8 then I added my 2 gouramis. I bought a beta fish (was told my last surviving oto would be fine NOT with him) Moved my Oto to the 25 g with no acclimatization because the beta was chasing him.
As of today, I have lost all my 6 kuhli loaches within a period of 1 and a half weeks, my male gourami with the strange spot I had to kill myself (very unpleasant) and one rasbora I found on the floor after last water change. My oto fish seems the hardiest but this problem is taking a toll on him too. My female gourami is coming out of hiding more I hope that's a good sign and everyone is still eating.
I have tried many different things... keeping a filter on during water changes, aging water, doing a less big water change. Using more Prime, less Prime. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't the Prime itself. These problems started happening around that time but so many changes happened together that it's hard to say. My neighbour has fish and he uses Prime without issue. I imagine we have the same water as he lives right beside me.
That's pretty much it... like I said this testing, listing etc etc has been going on for 3 months in different forums and still no answers.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Lou
Oh btw I do not think it was columnaris disease because none of my other fish except the kuhlis show any sign of distress or other odd behaviour. Maybe he got too close to the heater and got burned I'll never know. I did think I had posted about the gourami here too but being a loach forum I might not have... If not I'm sorry. My poor gourami was put in a hospital tank (I put the beta in a nursery box in the 25 g) and I had to kill the gourami the next day as he was only getting worse.
I then had to take all the water out of the 10g and start all over so the beta could have his home back. He is as healthy as a horse and shows no signs of any disease at all.
The thing is the only time I have problems is during a water change.
I then had to take all the water out of the 10g and start all over so the beta could have his home back. He is as healthy as a horse and shows no signs of any disease at all.
The thing is the only time I have problems is during a water change.
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BotiaMaximus
- Posts: 536
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 pm
- Location: St. Pete, Florida
Louise - What is the water temperature in your tank? Are you making sure the water you are adding to the tank when you do the water changes matches (exactly) the temperature of the water already in the tank? If they don't match you will put the fish into shock.
Is your tank temp really 20C? If so - that is way too cold. A temp this low will also cause serious problems and fish loss. 26-29C is an appropriate range for the fish you have in the tank.
Finally, if they do have a disease - which chefkeith or Diana would be more qualified to diagnose - there is a less traumatic way to yourself and your fish to end their suffering: http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatmen ... in-the-sky
Hope this is helpful.
Is your tank temp really 20C? If so - that is way too cold. A temp this low will also cause serious problems and fish loss. 26-29C is an appropriate range for the fish you have in the tank.
Finally, if they do have a disease - which chefkeith or Diana would be more qualified to diagnose - there is a less traumatic way to yourself and your fish to end their suffering: http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatmen ... in-the-sky
Hope this is helpful.
"Long May You Loach"
25*C is 77*F, a good temperature for the warmer water tropical fish. At higher temperature the water holds less oxygen, so it is important to keep up the water movement so there is plenty of gas exchange at the water surface.
If it all started when you switched to Prime, then try switching to something else.
Prime is more concentrated than many other dechlorinators. Are you using the proper dose? When used at too high a level some dechlorinators can lock up oxygen.
If it all started when you switched to Prime, then try switching to something else.
Prime is more concentrated than many other dechlorinators. Are you using the proper dose? When used at too high a level some dechlorinators can lock up oxygen.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I talked to someone at Seachem and they sent me a pipette to help me out with my dosage so yes I would say that the dose I'm administering is ok. I will switch though to a different brand see if that helps at all. It is pretty much when all my troubles started but like I stated everyone kept telling me it could not possibly be the Prime, people on message boards, my neighbour, people at the pet stores... arghhh.... I just don't know anymore.
If my fish all had columnaris disease would I not know it by now? My gourami died 2 weeks ago... my fish are presently all fine, even the Beta which apparently is the most susceptible to get it.
If my fish all had columnaris disease would I not know it by now? My gourami died 2 weeks ago... my fish are presently all fine, even the Beta which apparently is the most susceptible to get it.
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