Nightmare continues!

[Diana]

Columnaris shows up as external problems on the fish, and has several common names based on where it shows up.
When it attacks the fins it is called Fin Rot.
When it attacks the body of the fish it may be called Saddle Disease (it sometimes starts across the dorsal area)
When it attacks in the head and mouth area it is called Mouth 'Fungus'. (it is not a fungus)

Other bacterial diseases can cause similar symptoms, for example Flavobacteria is not the only cause of fin rot. Mouth 'Fungus' is often caused by a different bacteria.

Anyway, yes you would know if your fish had Columnaris. The most obvious sign is a white or off white patch on the body of the fish that grows larger. It does not look sunken in, or swollen. There are different strains of Columnaris, one grows so fast it can kill the fish within 24 hours of noticing that anything is wrong. This one is rare. The average one will grow slower, but ought to show up with some sort of growth that can be identified within a day or two of the fish acting sick. (Clamped fins, hiding...)
Sometimes the fish do not act sick inthe eary stages, all you see is a grey-white patch.

Fin rot starts as a thinning of the delicate tissue between the rays, sometimes seen as a loss of color, then the tissue erosion starts. On long finned fish it seems to grow pretty fast. The fins look sort of ragged, like split ends as the softer tissue disintegrates faster than the harder ray tissue.

[Louise]

Then that can't be what my fish died from. It's supposed to be very contagious and I do believe that if my other fish had anything wrong dating back 2 weeks when this fish had to be killed I would know.

The problems with the water change do put a lot of stress on my fish that from what I've read can cause them to develop all sorts of diseases.

My poor male gourami had a white spot the size of a dime (only a 2" fish) that appeared overnight. From there it just went down hill. I have not seen any spots on my female gourami, loaches or any of my harlequins. Believe me I've checked them out very closely.

I am however, sorry that I didn't post this information on the board and I do apologize but with all this forum flipping and people giving me advice left and right it was not intentional.

The reason I wrote about my harlequins here is because I know Diana is good with water chem and I didn't want to start yet once again with new people. I have a water problem, I just don't know what it is and where it comes from.

[BotiaMaximus]

I have had to use Prime at 5 times the normal dose in order to neutralize nitrite in my tap water. Prime says this is allowable in the FAQ on the Seachem website. The standard dose with prime will remove a specific amount of ammonia, if your tap water exceeds that level you can use more to compensate. I think Prime is safe unless you grossly overdosed with the product.

I wish Prime was the source of the problems you were having and that using something else would solve the problem. I don't think it is however.

[Louise]

That's what everyone tells me but it's the only thing I changed and that's when my troubles began. Maybe a bad bottle? I dunno at this point I'm grasping at straws but I have to do something.

[BotiaMaximus]

I can understand your frustration Louise. Diana and chefkeith are really the experts when it goes into deep problems. The most I can do is follow along and look for unasked or overlooked questions and see if the puzzle pieces will finally come together.

You don't have anything to lose by getting a different bottle, or using Amquel+ instead on your next water change as far as I know. It could eliminate the possibility of it as a problem.

Have you had your neighbor come over to get a look at your tanks to see if anything jumps out at them as to a possible source of the trouble? Not sure what their level of experience is, but I'm sure if Diana or Keith could look at your setup in person and do tests they could figure it out in no time - it is difficult to diagnose across the miles in this fashion and costs valuable time.

[chefkeith]

Louise. I believe you could be right that the problem is the Prime.

Let's think about why the rasbora would jump out of the tank and onto to the floor. There can only be a few reasons why a fish would do that.

Here's one of my experiences-
My rainbowfish have jumped out of the tank on purpose before. It was after I added some Prime directly to a Quarantine tank that was having an ammonia or nitrite spike. Immediately after I added the Prime, the fish went absolutely nuts. The tank had a glass top on it, and the fish kept on hitting the glass top because they were trying to jump out of the tank. They eventually jumped out threw a small gap near the filter. I put the fish in a different tank after that. I haven't purchased another bottle of Prime since. Now I either don't use a water conditioner or I use a homemade conditioner.
---------------

There could be other binders in Prime that are doing something similar to your fish. Try using something other than Prime or try using nothing at all. If there are no chloramines in your tap water, then you might not even need to use a water conditioner. Can you let us know how your fish react to water without Prime in it?

The only other reasons I can think of why a fish would jump out of the water is pH / TDS shock or an electrical shock.

[BotiaMaximus]

Chef, do you think it is a bad batch of Prime or a Prime water parameter combination???

I pre-filter and age to avoid using anything, but I use Prime as my backup.

[chefkeith]

Chef, do you think it is a bad batch of Prime or a Prime water parameter combination???

I pre-filter and age to avoid using anything, but I use Prime as my backup.

Either or. I haven't the slightest idea why.

[Louise]

Ok I'm not doing another water change til next week TG! but I will try a different type of indoctrinator. I know it's very hard to pin point a problem just from what I type and I do forget to mention things (sick gourami) and I really do appreciate the help.

It's harder after yet another unsuccessful water change and maybe I should wait a couple of days before I post as it does make me sick to my heart. My little rasboras I've had for a while and they are such happy little fish. They even brush up against my hands

My loaches were my favorite, never knew what to expect with them and we used to have nodding contests.

As for my poor Gourami I never saw much of the guy he was always hiding with his woman and she misses him I'm sure.

Wish me luck and I'll try again next week.

[BotiaMaximus]

Sounds good, let's hope this does it.