Clown and corys sick(out of control)

[Protean]

I had around 11 corys now i have 6 corys, 2 of them or in Q-tank. Yesterday were 7corys,lost on today in the morning. One of otos came down with ick, he was treated and hes fine right now. Now im lossing corys left and right . I tested the water for any signs , but all come down to acceptable parameters . one of the clowns that i bought I found him dead 4 days ago , out of now where .Now another one looks like shes about to die. Swimming by her self. She has developed white slime on her base of her tail(not cotton look) I put here in the Q-tank yesterday, today shes laying on her side alot, breathing too fast. Water temp 79F .

Corys are there too. I just dose that than with Maracyn-Two . Hope it helps. Do you think this will help. The main tank temp is at 79F also. Live plants,shrimp,snails(whats left of them). What do you think is causing this. I do a water change almost every day 10% - 20% . Treat the water with Prime, nothing else.

I also have bolivian Ram. Its a female, she looks peaceful but sometimes she chases that clown when they get too close. My she be nipping on the tails?

[starsplitter7]

I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. I am pretty new to this, so I will leave the experts to answer your questions, but I know there are a few things they will need to know.
1.) How big are your tanks?

2.) How long have they been set up?

3.) What were your actual test results?

Not sure how important this is, but
4.) How big are your fish, and how long have you had them?

Good luck and best wishes for your wet pets. Tanja.

[Protean]

1. 55gal
2. Tank has been setup for 3 months.
3. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10
4. Corys and 1 ram -2 months, clowns almost 2 weeks ago .

[mistergreen]

Did you add anything recent to the tank?
hard to say but it could be 'velvet'. It's a parasitic protozoan like ich..

[shari2]

My apologies, Protean. I was not around here much last week and must have missed your earlier posts.

Interpet seems to only be available in the UK and Europe.

If your oto had ich did you treat him separately? If so, the tank still has ich. The parasite often colonizes the gills first and you won't see it on the body. Rapid respiration is a signal symptom of ich. Fish that are stressed by parasites often succumb to secondary infections. My thinking is that you may still be harboring ich in your tank.

Did you treat the whole tank for ich or only the oto, and what did you do for treatment?

I have some around 11 corys, 4 otos, and new addition of 4 clowns. One of the otos has developed ick. he has around 3 to 4 of ick on his body. One of the corys has it to , I just noticed it right now. Should I treat the hole tank also? . Its a planted tank. Should expect a full out break. Please let me know to reduced and out break. I already did a 20% water change, I gravel cleaned it too. I added Melafix and pimafix to fight some type of fungus that one of the cory has. Thanks in advance. I have an empty 10gal tank, but its in the attic. What type of ick treatment would you guys and gals recommend?

It sounds like you may have brought the ich in with the clowns. At 79F it could take up to a week or more for the ich to go through a full life cycle. Raising the temp speeds up this process but you need to be prepared to treat the tank when you raise the temp or all that happens is you end up with rapidly proliferating ich.

The maracyn may help with any secondary infections, but if there is ich in the tank, that is the first thing you should deal with. Unfortunately, you should finish the course with the maracyn to avoid developing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, but you still need to deal with the ich - if that's what it is.

Melafix and Pimafix won't help with ich at all. In fact, I don't recommend pimafix for loaches.

Some questions:

Did you ever notice any fish 'flashing'?
Can you give me a list of all the fish affected and what you see in them?
Ideally, a picture would be very helpful, especially of the cory with fungus if she/he is still with you.

Again, I am sorry for your losses and that I didn't get back to you on this sooner.

shari

[jones57742]

Folks:

I had a similar occurrence several months ago.

Woke up one morning with 2 dead Yoyos, 3 Yoyos with reddish lips and fins, GN and QA plecos acting like they were in "death mode", and sterbai "acting squirrely"*.

The next 3 days I did 33% daily WC's, used salt, used Melafix and used Pimafix.


No joy.

All but one of my GNs were dead or dying, all but one of my QAs were dead or dying, the red lips and tails of the Yoyos was much more pronounced, the dorsal fins of the Yoyos were reddish and the sterbai were acting as if they were going to die*


Out of desperation!

I had two large unopened jugs of activated carbon in the garage.

I placed one jug of the activated carbon in a media bag and placed the media bag in my sump**.


Lo and Behold

Within 24 hours the red on the Yoyos was significantly reduced and the sterbai were starting to act normal.

Four days later the bottom dwellers which were still alive were "acting normal".

I kept the activated carbon in the sump for seven days "just in case".


Why this happened

I had done "nothing different" (and I am an old bachelor and as such vacuuming cleaning, cleaning the outside of the tank, etc had not occurred)

The water parameters were (as best I remember)
Ph=7
Gh=5
Kh=3
Nitrates=15
Ammonia=0
Nitrites=0

Only the fish which stay or occasionally "hang out" on the bottom were affected.

The mid-water and surface dwellers were not affected.

Hence Protean's statement
" ... also have bolivian Ram. Its a female, she looks peaceful but sometimes she chases that clown when they get too close. My she be nipping on the tails?" meant to me that she is not being affected.

I really do not have a clue but only two speculations.

One

A heater in my sump had been "acting up" and it took me several days to note this condition (via a rudimentary thermometer in my tank).

I believe that the daily temperature "swings" could have been as much as 5F even though I have dual heaters and thermostats in the sump.

Two

My refill water is RO which is plumbed into my sump.

The RO unit is a Kent three stage and the cartridges are replaced more frequently than recommended by the manufacturer

but

"Somehow" chlorine and/or chloramines may have been induced to my tank via the RO system.


*These sterbai are easily the most hardy fish in my tank.

**I do not believe in the use of activated carbon in a typical filtration process but had purchased the two jugs which were in the garage "just in case".

TR

[Ardillakilla]

My refill water is RO which is plumbed into my sump.

The RO unit is a Kent three stage and the cartridges are replaced more frequently than recommended by the manufacturer

but

"Somehow" chlorine and/or chloramines may have been induced to my tank via the RO system.

For chloramine, you really need dual chloramine-specific cartridges, especially if you have a faster flow rate RO membrane. A single regular carbon cartridge may very well pass some chloramine through it.

That only takes care of the chlorine but leaves the ammonia half of chloramine. Ammonia readily passes through RO membranes so you have to have DI cartridges. But one isn't enough because there often isn't enough dwell time for it to take up all the ammonia. There's also the chance that a nearly exhausted DI cartridge might dump a bunch of ions and result in an ammonia spike. The final benefit of a series of DI cartridges is that you can make sure the 1st cartridge is completely exhausted before it's replaced.

My RO/DI system is as follows:

1) generic polyester pre-filter
2) chloramine-specific carbon cartridge
3) chloramine-specific carbon cartridge
4) 100 gpd RO membrane
5) DI cartridge #1
6) DI cartridge #2
7) DI cartridge #3

DI #1 hasn't completely changed color and is still outputting 0-1 TDS water yet but DI #2 has already started changing color. #3 hasn't changed color.

[Protean]

Thanks guys and gals, really. THANKS. Hum one of the clowns on the Q-tank pass away today. But the corys are still there, looks more lively. Also Jones brought up something too. The first clown that died had some red in his mouth but he just died too fast, didnt show any signs of illness. Yes Shari i did treat the hole tank . Yesterday i felt so bad that i was about to quit.

These are the meds i have on hand,Melafix,Pimafix,Rid-ich by Kordon,Maracyn-two.Thats it. I live in Baton Rouge,Louisiana, I had clown loaches before Katrina, I lost them two weeks after Katrina pass, it was to much work, almost no sleep. I had to put my clowns in a 10gal tank, with a heater and a cheap filter, water changes was constant all day, my family was living with the clowns i was living 10 mins away from my clowns, had a border collie too (JUNIOR). I just lost it, i was 19 at that time. But i never had any sick clowns back in those days.

Ill get those pics running up by nightfall. Fish that were affected: One oto , corys, and now clowns. Ram is healthy. OOOO PH here is very high 7.8 to almost 8 . I don't want to fool with this but if i must ill do it. I'm not a fan of pimafix for loaches either .

[jones57742]

Protean:

I am posting again only to emphasize one item.

Also Jones brought up something too. The first clown that died had some red in his mouth but he just died too fast, didnt show any signs of illness.

When I went to bed one night all of my fishies were happy.

When I woke up the next morning the condition described in my previous post was evident (ie. dead and/or dying bottom dwellers).

The scenario cited above would appear to be consistent with "just died too fast".

Once again I believe that I saved the lives of three yoyos, 6 sterbai and one QA pleco via the induction of a massive quantity of activated carbon into my filtration process.

Also once again I really "do not have a clue" as to why the activated carbon "worked" but it did.

TR

[shari2]

Carbon would be an easy thing to try after the maracyn is done. Have to get the medicine out of the water before you start with quickcure or rid-ich (or whatever you decide to use on ich if the antibiotic doesn't kick it), anyway.

How are the fishes?

[Ardillakilla]

Also once again I really "do not have a clue" as to why the activated carbon "worked" but it did.

Not to point out the obvious, but something toxic was put in the water and the carbon removed it?

If that substance (some medication, ammonia, chlorine, etc.) wasn't introduced to the tank in the first place, maybe more fish could've been "saved."

[shari2]

If that substance (some medication, ammonia, chlorine, etc.) wasn't introduced to the tank in the first place, maybe more fish could've been "saved."

Probably, but one thing I've learned over the years is that unexpected and unexplained things happen when you keep fish. We aren't always aware of water issues until we see indications from our tank inhabitants. When you're faced with that kind of inexplicable problem you do what you can, as fast as you can, and hope it helps.

Having carbon around 'just in case' is not a bad idea. I have a large canister of it, I don't use it on a regular basis, but if I need to remove medication, or if the tank looks less than crystal clear, or I'm 'housecleaning' the tank, I'll add a bag for a while, then remove it.

When you're not sure what is in your water, but you know the fish are suffering, it's one thing you can do that you know won't cause further problems. Even water changes can be a risk when you aren't sure of your water. Carbon is no risk.

I'm with Jonesy on this one. It may not help, but it won't hurt. And if it does - well then, yes, you have 'saved' some fish, even if you don't know what exactly you saved them from. First, save the fish. Second, find out what from if that is possible. Then solve the problem if you can so it doesn't happen again.

[Protean]

well theres only one cory left in the Q-tank, the main tank, until now haven't notice any illness yet, and 3days ago i added activated carbon to one of the canisters. There's something funny, One of my big clowns is doing something weird, he keeps swimming up next to the heater and the out-take of the canister filter don't know why, he just swims for hours .

[shari2]

clowns love warm, moving, well oxygenated water...

[jones57742]

Protean:

Please excuse my words here but I am only trying to help you save your fish.

well theres only one cory left in the Q-tank, the main tank, until now haven't notice any illness yet,

I do not understand.

Is the condition which you described in your first post getting better or worse since adding the activated carbon?

and 3days ago i added activated carbon to one of the canisters.

I did not express myself very well in my previous post.

What I was trying to describe was adding approximately one gallon of activated carbon into the filtration process of a 110G tank (total aquarium volume approximately 140G)

This may have been overkill but in West Texas if 1 is the recommended minimum and 2 is the desired quantity then 6 will work just fine.

The above is an attempt at humor but I believe that my thought process included the following:
1) I had "absolutely no idea" of what was the problem with the water and did not want to put a small quantity of activated carbon in the filtration process and one hour later the carbon become deactivated (ie. it's chemical filtration capacity to be usurped).
2) I was "smooth wore out" with my fish dying and many other fishies not being "happy campers at all". Hence the inductance of a massive quantity of activated carbon would affect the water quality very quickly (ie. not put some in a cannister).

There's something funny, One of my big clowns is doing something weird, he keeps swimming up next to the heater and the out-take of the canister filter don't know why, he just swims for hours .

Your original post did not indicate the dimensions of your main tank or your Q tank.

I purchased Yoyo loaches as the literature reported that Clowns would attain lengths up to 14".
My Yoyo's are now happy fishies and are {like 5" to 6"} in size.
You cannot (or at least I could not) imagine how three fish of this size would occupy a 110G 30" high tank.

TR