Loaches Online Forum

Hi,
This is fustrating. In the past I've had about a 50% survival rate
for pangio kuhlii from our LFS (during the first week). This is the only fish I've ever really had a problem keeping alive. Sigh. Anyway, my questions for those who have also experienced this.

I got 6 of them last week, and now I'm down to one, they seem fine, then they get stiff and twitchy and die in a few hours. Hopefully the last one will survive. What I am worried about is a white clown pleco that is also in the
QT tank with them. The pleco (~1") seems fine, acting normal... Has anyone had other fish die along with your Khulis? Is there some action I need to take to ensure the pleco's survival?
The QT tank is a 5.5 gal with an aquaclear 20 filter, where the sponge and ceramics stay in the filter of my loach tank. The tank is half-full of plants
(clippings, java ferns, etc.). NH4 = 0, NO2 =0, NO3 = ~20. PH ~7, KH ~100, GH ~ 150.

At this point, I'm mostly worried about the pleco, and i would like to use the plants...

Any advice is much appreciated.

Batch

I recently lost all my Kuhlie loaches -- new ones as well as my established ones. Very upsetting. I didn't lose my oblonga or eel Kuhlies. I also didn't lose the other fish in the tank: guppies, Horse Faced loaches, a gold bristle nose, fry, snails and shrimp.

I don't know why I lost the Kuhlies. I cleaned the tank, the filter, changed the water, and waited a long time, and recently added three new tiny Kuhlies (1"), and they have been doing very well. No problems.

Sorry I can't help you. Tanja.

Hi Batch,

I know what you're going through. I love kuhlis, but I've had to buy an awful lot of them just to get the ten that I have now. I'd say that I've also had about a 50% or less survival rate, also in the first week. I recently bought 6, and only one survived quarantine. He's now the most active kuhli I have----always out, looking for food, and being cute.

When I purchased those 6 kuhlis, I also purchased a pygmy cory and a common pleco. The cory and pleco were in quarantine with the kuhlis and were not affected.

Well so much for that. The last Khuli died last night.
The pleco looks okay tho... Cute little guy.

Thanks for the replies/support.

Batch

I would test the water from the bag your fish came in. Your experience reminds me of when I bought some soft water, low pH fish from the fish store and put them in a tank with what I thought would be their optimal water conditions. I thought I was patient in acclimating them but they died.

Later, I found that the fish store had them swimming in water that was closer to marine conditions, high pH, high conductivity. I think they load their tanks with salt to prevent disease.

Anyway I suggest you check the bag water and compare it to yours to see if your fish got too much of an osmotic shock.

Hi MTS,
The water parameters were pretty close to the same. I got these from the one LFS that I would say knows what they are doing.

Thanks for the advice,
batch

The quick rate of death seems suspicious. That is why I thought osmotic shock. Sorry, I don't have other ideas for you. In the meantime, I would keep the pleco separated for a while. If it does ok, I would assume the plants are fine too.

i remember my mate who has the fish shop saying that the kuhli's coming in at the moment, he was having alot of trouble keeping them alive.
his water management is superb pretty similar to Emma and Steves.
maybe this is nothing to do with us but something thats happening during transport to our countries.
ive also lost some kuhli's in exactly the same way, just before death they twitch alot then gone.

mick

I bought 25 Kuhlis 2 weeks ago and only 4 are left. A month before that I bought 18 and only 8 survived. Increasingly over the past decade the survival rate of Kuhlis has dropped dramatically. They used to be a much hardier fish.

No one knows for sure, but I suspect that there is something going on at the water source where they are collected. The rivers in all across Asia are under tremendous environmental strain from pollution. If the Kuhlis are coming from polluted waters they are going to be stressed from the get go and the shipping process is just more than they can take.

I've encountered even worse loss rates with Mooseface loaches. They come from the Ganges and it's tributaries in India. The Ganges is notorious for being treated as a giant sewer.

So they die because of their natural water source? They'd be extinct if that was the case.


I agree with MTS. If you test the TDS of the bag water you could tell.

I have 4 black kuhli loaches (they really look more brown than anything). Are yours the banded variety? I originally had 5 but one died a few days after purchase. The others have all done very well and are almost double in size. They are all very active, social, food seeking little squirmy worms. I wonder if this issue is pronounced in all Kuhli loaches or just certain varieties?

I hope you find some that make it for you.

Nerina~

Hi Nerina,
I have 5 (out of 9 purchased, the rest died within a couple days) pangio kuhlii (the stripey ones)
that have been in my loach tank for several months. They're doing great! Just trying to increase
the size of the herd. In a different tank I have 7 black Khulis (Pangio oblonga?)
out of 7 purchased. It seems that the striped varieties are the problematic ones.

Batch

I have never seen the striped pangio kuhli at any of my LFS...just the black Kuhli's. Originally I wanted the striped, but when I found the black kuhli's they were too cute to pass up. Recently I fed them some blanched zuccini and they went absolutely crazy over it. There was a pile of them all fighting over the same spot to nibble on. I need to take pics next time.

As for why the pangio kuhli keep dying, I feel badly for you. I am having some weird new dojo issues keeping them alive...in the past it was never an issue, but of the 6 fish I have purchased it appears only two might make it.

Best of luck,
Nerina~

chefkeith wrote:So they die because of their natural water source? They'd be extinct if that was the case.

No. I said if they are coming out of their water source stressed they are less likely to be able to withstand the stress of shipping. At the moment this seems to primarily affect the striped species. As I noted in the Kuhli chapter of the Loach book, all but one species of striped Kuhli are collected on the Maylay Peninsula. The solid colored Kuhlis occur over a much wider range in S.E. Asia as well as, in the case of the Black Kuhli loach, India.