Sick Golden Dojo Loach

[kmaemac]

My daughters laoch had a ring around its anus last night. This evening when we got home from school it was even worse. It is hanging skin. I think that it may bee too late to help save it, but would appreciate any imput. We have another dojo in a 20 gal, with 1 algea eater, an aquatic frog and breeding guppies. I have been treating for Ick for the last week.
[img][img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267 ... IM1101.jpg[/img]
This one of the best I could get of it last night.
[img][img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267 ... IM1108.jpg[/img]
As you can hopefully see in this one, the reflection shows the tissue damage...

[newshound]

My daughters laoch had a ring around its anus last night. This evening when we got home from school it was even worse. It is hanging skin. I think that it may bee too late to help save it, but would appreciate any imput. We have another dojo in a 20 gal, with 1 algea eater, an aquatic frog and breeding guppies. I have been treating for Ick for the last week.
damage...

god where to start on this one.
have you researched what dojo's need?
what are your water conditions like
how long has this tank been set up
what ick med are u using?
etc etc etc...

[kmaemac]

We have research and the other dojo is doing ok, active and all. the water condition is normal range. We are using Ick Clear Tabs by Jungle. The tank is relatively new 2.5 months old. I started it with goldfish for 1 month. We feed them shrimp pellets. They had been active and healthy until this week. They have been in the tank 1.5 months. It is still moving around. I put it in a seperate tank (2.5 gal) by its self to get it out of the medicine. It is our old tank, I don't know what else to do. My one neighbor who got us started on the guppies said it looked like it had been burned. I put a filter and bubble stone it the small tank, stress coat and cycle and checked pH, nitrates and nitrites, all good.

[starsplitter7]

Hi there,
I hope your Dojo is doing okay. I am sorry to hear about its difficulty.

I am relatively new, but let me tell you a couple of my experiences and hopefully they will help you. I lost a Dojo to something that looks like your problem a couple months ago, and I think it was due to too much Ammonia or Nitrite in the water. Remember that Ammonia and Nitrite need to be 0 and Nitrate can be a little higher 10-20.

First, as far as I can tell, the Jungle brand products don't work well. I have used the Ick ones, fungus and another one. Next time you treat, use a different brand. Did you take the charcoal out of the filter when you cleaned, and did you use half dosage? Many loaches are scaleless or have small scales and are very sensitive to medicine.

Long term a 20 gallon is too small for your Dojos, because they grow to about 9 inches and are super active. They are cool water fish. They don't want to be in temps above 76 and cooler is better. If your tank is higher, don't lower it quickly, especially for the sick Dojo. Is your Dojo breathing fast? If so, increase the oxygen. One of the easiest ways is to lower the water slightly, so the water falls from the filter into the tank.

And contrary to what many people say, Dojos like friends. Mine all pile up on top of each other. I would get a bigger tank and a few more Dojos when you sort out whatever your problem is.

In the future I would get a 10 gallon for a quarantine/treatment tank. When you are not using it, hang the filter on your other tank, so that it is always in operation. This way when you have an emergency you have a mature filter when you need to set up your tank for treatment.

Best of luck. Tanja

[kmaemac]

my dojo is breathing kinda in between. we have a bubble stone in the tank she hasnt moved since i came down stairs to check on her the only movement i can see so far is her eyes. she hasnt touched the food we put in last night and as of now we have her in a 2 gal tank. we have the filter like you said it should be and some smooth stones, river stones, so she can rest on them, which is currently where she is, so the gravel wont irritate her wound.

[Icewall42]

Looks to me like some sort of an infection, but it could also be ammonia burns.... I don't know if there's any sort of internal problem that would cause fish waste to become extra toxic, but if so, it may be a possibility. My first step would be to treat for an external bacterial infection, unless someone has a better grasp on what the issue might be.

[kmaemac]

what would we treat with i only turned 14 in january and that was when we established the tank. im just learning about all this stuff she is now moving around but only a littlei think she might of eaten alittle bit of food because there are only 2 pellets compared to the 4 we put in last night my other dojo freaked when he could not find in the tank last night i have 6 other bottom dwellers, 3 ghost shrimp, an algae eater, an aquatic frog and another dojo, and they are doing just fine, no wounds, burns, or cuts.

[starsplitter7]

You are in the right place to learn. We have all been where you are at. I have only been doing this three years, so I am a beginner too.

When my Dojo got burned, my other fish were not affected. She was very pale, and I think more susceptible -- sort of a like a red headed person can be more easily burned by the sun.

It is very important that you don't leave any food in the tank, because it can cause a rise in Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, especially since your tank is so small. If she hasn't eaten it, remove the old food and then change out a bit of the water (I use a big turkey baster to suck yuck out of my quarantine tank). Make sure you keep the temperature steady. You need to be very careful that Ammonia doesn't build up in the water, since she is injured. A bare tank for a treatment tank is good. Don't use lights. A few large smooth stones are fine. Make sure you clean under them. Don't use gravel in a treatment tank.

You can feed her again later, but I would only add one pellet unless you see her eat it. If you can get frozen blood worms or live food, she may be more enticed to eat, but make sure nothing stays in the tank with her. If she doesn't eat it, suck it out. My Dojos will eat bloodworms and live food from my fingers (when they are feeling well, of course). The cleaner you keep the water, the better she will feel. Imagine if you scraped your knee. You don't want a dirty bandage on it, and that's basically what the dirty water is.

I don't want to recommend any medicine, because I do not have good luck with medication. Do you have a good fish store with people who know fish? (Don't assume people working at pet stores know anything about fish.) I find about 30% of the people in my local fish stores know anything about fish. If you have a place where you know the people understand fish, take a picture with you and ask what you should treat with. If they recommend Jungle, chances are they do not know fish. Do you have any mom and pop stores or a local fish club? They would be a good place to go for help.

[kmaemac]

we have a walmart were a guy, aaron says we sould have gotten some water from the pond at the anderson river park but my neighbor said that stuff is contaninated so we didnt get any. for treatment we are doing full strength ick clear and half strength fungus clear. we dissolve it in some water before adding it to the tank. and this morning we added a small plant and shes moving around alittle bit more than this morning.we dont have a turkey baster so we will have to go get one.we do at least a 25-50% change each time before we treat the tank. at 1st i thought her wound was from the meds. but my nieghbor said it wasnt but im not sure cuz she doesnt know anything about dojos but her son hes a kuhli loach.

[starsplitter7]

we have a walmart were a guy, aaron says we sould have gotten some water from the pond at the anderson river park but my neighbor said that stuff is contaninated so we didnt get any. for treatment we are doing full strength ick clear and half strength fungus clear. we dissolve it in some water before adding it to the tank. and this morning we added a small plant and shes moving around alittle bit more than this morning.we dont have a turkey baster so we will have to go get one.we do at least a 25-50% change each time before we treat the tank. at 1st i thought her wound was from the meds. but my nieghbor said it wasnt but im not sure cuz she doesnt know anything about dojos but her son hes a kuhli loach.

Don't contaminate your tank with pond water. Your neighbor told you the right thing. Be careful of bad advice.

I don't think the medicine caused the problem directly, but sometimes animals get secondary infections when you treat them.

Dojos and Kuhlies both have sensitive skin, so she is probably on the right track. Sounds like your neighbor has good ideas.

Keep your Dojo's water really clean, and check the water in the Dojo's tank and the main tank. The readings need to be zero for Ammonia and Nitrite, very low for nitrate.

Best of luck.

[kmaemac]

last time you said not to put any gravel in with her but the tank we are currently using for her has a crack in the bottom would it be allright if we used some gravel. but we are planning on getting a 5 gal. to use in the future and some sand tonight at walmart. we have the tank on a cookie sheet so the water wont go all over th e place. we got this dojo from pet smart and the other from petco. how many days was it before your dojo died from this "rash". this is about the 4th day shes had it. when we clean out the tank shes in would it hurt to use an apple sauce jar. we bleached it before using it with my juvinille guppies and they are fine

[Emma Turner]

Hi kmaemac,
Do you have an ammonia test kit? We could really do with knowing the exact level of ammonia in the water ASAP in order to help this poor loach. If you don't have a test kit, can you take a sample of the tank water over to your local aquatics store for them to test? Get them to check not only for ammonia, but also double check your nitrIte, nitrAte and pH readings as well. If there is ammonia in the water, the toxicity of it to the fish can be affected by the pH. Don't let them fob you off with 'the readings are ok' or 'the readings are in range', tell them you want the exact levels written down for you. If you haven't got test kits for ammonia and nitrIte, buy some whilst you are there so that you can monitor these regularly at home, and if the levels are elevated, buy a product to neutralise them (I think a lot of people in the US recommend Seachem's 'Prime'?). This will at least help your fish to feel a little more comfortable if ammonia/nitrIte are present.
Some of the symptoms you describe lead me to think this could possibly be haemorrhagic septicaemia, which is contagious and requires fast treatment. Although it often presents itself with red streaks on the fins of the fish, other symptoms are angry red patches, particularly around the bases of the fins and the vent (anus). I hope I am wrong with this, others may wish to comment with what they think. HS would be bought about by overcrowding, poor water conditions, rough handling etc and treatment would be via antibiotics, plus eliminating the factors that bought it on in the first place.
Good luck,
Emma

[starsplitter7]

last time you said not to put any gravel in with her but the tank we are currently using for her has a crack in the bottom would it be allright if we used some gravel. but we are planning on getting a 5 gal. to use in the future and some sand tonight at walmart. we have the tank on a cookie sheet so the water wont go all over th e place. we got this dojo from pet smart and the other from petco. how many days was it before your dojo died from this "rash". this is about the 4th day shes had it. when we clean out the tank shes in would it hurt to use an apple sauce jar. we bleached it before using it with my juvinille guppies and they are fine

The gravel won't hurt her, but it is harder to clean. When you have a sick fish it is very important she is super clean. So when you set up your next treatment tank, remove the gravel. Since you have gravel in her current tank, make sure it is smooth.

Many people recommend pool filter sand, which is cheap and easy to find, but don't put it in the treatment tank. If you do, use very little like 1/2 an inch. When you use the sand, make sure you clean it really well, by rinsing many times until nothing floats. And clean the sand when you clean the tank.

When I move my fish from tank to tank, I use big cooking bowls that are only used for the fish.

Make sure you acclimate the fish whenever you change their tank. I use an 8 foot long piece of air tube, and I tie a knot in the center. I put water from the tank the fish is in, and then drip water from the new tank over a period of an hour or two. This helps the fish not go into shock.

Here's the link for my Dojo emergency. Pictures on the second page. I lost her in four days. I was very sad. She was a great Dojo.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... jo&start=0

[kmaemac]

i named my dojos oro and herculus. oro is the sick one i just checked her "rash" and it looks as if it has gotten a tiny bit smaller. right now all the dead flesh that is covering it is dead white. right now we are cleaning the tank out because it was a bit dirty and we took out about 3/4 of the rock. herc is trying to get the algae eater to play with him. we have a log with a live plant on it a little plant container for the frog and about 5 plants for them to hide in.

[starsplitter7]

Make sure you don't clean the main tank too thoroughly. You don't want to kill the nitrifying bacteria. (I made that mistake). The bacteria eats Ammonia and turns it into Nitrite, another bacteria eats the Nitrite and turns it into Nitrate, which isn't as toxic for the fish. If you kill the bacteria, your fish can get ammonia poisoning more easily.

You need to clean your tank every week or every two weeks at least 25-30%.

The treatment tank needs to be very clean, and that one you want to change some of the water every day.

Make sure you do not clean the filters too thoroughly. Don't clean the bio wheel or biosponge. They have the bacteria.

I rinse the filter cartridges in the tank water I remove from the tank weekly, and then I change it about every 3-4 weeks. I have more than one filter on my tanks, and I only change one of the cartridges at a time.

Take care of your fishies. Tanja.