Loaches Online Forum

Hi,

I'm just after some advice on water conditioners. My LFS recommended that I use the Sera range of conditioners, so I'm adding Morena and Florena fortnightly, and Nitrivec and Ammovec weekly to maintain good water conditions for my fish, and I've been doing this religiously for a year.

Now, financially times are a bit hard at the moment, and whilst I have no intention of economising in any way that will harm my fish, I was wondering if I still need to continue adding the the ammovec and nitrivec? I have friends who don't add any conditioners to their tanks, and they have no problems. I'm sceptical about asking in another LFS in case they suggest a different conditioner, so I thought best place for an impartial view would be here.

If I do still need to add ammovec/nitrivec could anyone suggest alternative products that may be slightly cheaper, or a reliable website to purchase the Sera range through as it appears not many sites stock Sera products. In fact the only one with a reasonable price tends to send incorrect goods or short supplies me. All of my LFS's stock different brands so I can't even get a price comparison between them.

I'm not sure what those products are or what they are supposed to do. Your LFS is probably giving you false advice about needing them.

You need to take charge and get to know your water parameters and do proper maintenance.

If your filter is established, then it should be processing ammonia and converting it to nitrites and nitrates. So what you need are ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. Test for ammonia and nitrite in the morning, in the afternoon, during the evening, and at night. If you get any result above 0, then you will need to upgrade your filter because it is not processing ammonia quickly enough.

Test the Nitrates. If the nitrates are above 20 ppm, then you need to improve maintenance.
Proper maintenance might be doing two 20% water changes per week and rinsing filter media in dechlorinated water. More gravel vacs may need to be done also.

I just did a quick google and came up with the following;

Nitrivec, For immediate introduction of fish, breaks down ammonia and nitrite in fresh and saltwater aquariums.

Ammovec, a bacteria starter formula for use in salt water aquaria. Sera Ammovec contains a special blend of salt water purification bacteria which will quickly establish the biological equilibrium in your tank. These bacteria will naturally remove ammonium and nitrites from the water. Once your biological system is working, the first animals or live rock may be safely introduced to your tank.

sera morena with immediate effect and sera Super Activ black peat granulate with long-term effect improve the water conditions for fish from soft, slightly acidic water and prevent growth of unwanted bacteria, fungus and algae.

The plant nutrients in sera florena can easily be taken up through the leaves by the plants. The nutrients stay active in the water until they are taken up by the plants. sera florena is free from nitrate and phosphate and does not promote algae growth.



Right so what I have gathered from that is that you are adding two chemicals that 'remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc' and one for making the water 'soft and suitable for your fish' and once for plant growth.


All of the above almost pose problems. A quick run through; fish produce ammonia which is converted by bacteria in your tank into nitrite which again is converted into nitrate. Nitrate is what you are removing via water changes. All the suggestions of these chemicals 'removing ammonia/nitrite etc' is not actually true-it at most only converts the ammonia/nitrite in question into another source. So in short you can scrap those two chemicals straight away... you dont need them. As chefkeith said-what you need are test kits to measure ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc and keep the levels within the ranges he has given. The levels of these parameters you get as well as your fish stock etc with decide what filtration you should use and how often you do your water changes. If your filter is coping ammonia and nitrite will b 0 at all times, when nitrate hits 20 you will need to change water. 20-30% is usually recomended but again this depends on stocking, feeding schedule etc

The sera morena can also be scrapped, all this pH up pH down, soft water extract products do nothing more than swing your water pH. What your fish need is stability- a stable pH, kh and gh, which again can all be monitered by test kits that Chefkeith has suggested.

The plant nutrient one, Im not sure. I myself add ferts to one of my planted tanks but I am not familar with that brand. If you don't have plants you have no need for it, if you have plants-do you know what kind there are. It may be that you have some undemanding plant species that could cope quite well without the addition of ferts.

The only thing you need to add to your water when changing it is dechlorinator, you can buy it in bulk for ponds etc if you have a large tank volume. I have found prime to be a good conditioner to use and small quantities treat large volumes so it lasts for ages.

With regards to test kits-try and get a liquid based one, not only are they more reliable in readings, but they last for a fair while aswell although are quite expensive to begin with. You can buy them in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph and high ph kit which, again works out cheaper than buying singles. kh and gh can also be bought in one pack.


Hope this makes sense... ran through it quite quickly but hopefully that will explain the basics and answer your questions


Ashleigh

Ditto The above posts.

Once a tank is established it has a good population of bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite. No need to constantly add more, and most 'bacteria in a bottle' products have the wrong bacteria anyway. No need to add products that lock up ammonia or nitrite unless these are present in the tap water. A test kit would tell you for sure what your tank really needs. The people in the stores will only tell you what you need to buy to cover their paycheck.
Hang onto these extra products and if a problem crops up (as shown by the test kit) you can use one or the other to neutralize the ammonia or nitrite until you can get the problem solved.

When you clean the filter rinse the media in water removed from the tank for a water change and reuse it as long as it lasts. Sponges can last for years, most of the finer floss sorts of media will last for several cleanings, but eventually mat together and need to be replaced.
If you want to get the benefit of the soft water product you can probably do this cheaper by using peat moss for gardening. I do not know what products are available across the pond, but I use Canadian Sphagnum peat moss. No fertilizers or other additives.
As noted above the aquarium plants do benefit from fertilizer. Even in a low light aquarium I found that my plants did better when I fertilized with potassium and iron fertilizers. This would vary with your tap water, and how much light there is over the tank. In higher light plants can grow faster and may need more fertilizers. Fish food and water changes may be enough fertilizer for a low light tank.

If your water company adds chlorine or chloramine to the water then you will need a product that will neutralize either of these. Often such a product will also neutralize ammonia. The more expensive ones have added vitamins, electrolytes, and all sorts of odd things. Get the one that will do the job with the smallest dose, so that your money will go the farthest.

Thank you all so much for your advice. I did think the continual adding of Ammovec and Nitrivec seemed a little strange, and not cheap at £40+ for two bottles of the stuff, it lasts about 2 months, so a fairly expensive outlay for little/no benefit.

I will keep adding the Florena as my plants are doing so well with it that I need to take cuttings.

The Morena I add with Aquatan when doing water changes so will continue buying that as well.

Thank you all once again, some very thorough answers which is greatly appreciated.

i think your advice is great in my condition.