Grey patches on clown

[EdSabine]

Hiya,

I'm new to all this (and think I've fallen foul of the common newbie problem of overstocking) so hope I don't get flamed too badly. :-/

Anyway, my setup is as follows:

Tank setup : 3 Months
Tank Size : 120cm x 60cm x 42cm
Tank Volume : 300l
Filters : Fluval 405 & Tetratec Ex1200 & Vectron2 600 UV Steriliser
Temp : 26degC
Cleaning : 40l weekly water change, Tank & filter clean every 4 weeks

Fish : 1 x Fire Eel, 7 x Clown Loaches, 4 x Red Rainbowfish, 3 x Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish, 10 x Danios, 5 x Kulhi Loaches, 8 x Cory Sterbi, 1 x Gold Nugget Pleco, 1 x Opal Spot Pleco

Ammonia : 0ppm
Nitrite : 0ppm
Nitrate : 10ppm
PH : 7.6

I'm generally quite paraniod about the tank and test the water frequently, every week now (it used to be every day) and the Ammonia & Nitrite have never shown above 0.

I've noticed a couple of my Clowns have dark patches on them.
I know a picture's worth a thousand words so I've uploaded some video onto YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whucJoUKgX4
(You can click the HQ button to get better quality video and easier to spot the marks on the fish)

The fish in the opening shot and another at 5 seconds in both have a mark on their right sides. One low down, the other much higher. (The higher up marked fish can also be seen briefly at 1min and right at the end)

They seem happy in themselves, not scraping against any of the scenery, and are eating fine.

They get a variety of foods, mostly bloodworm or brine shrimp but they also like flakes and 2 types of tablets (algae and earthworm meal).

When they were introduced to the tank I treated it with Protozin (after removing the carbon from the filters and didn't run the UV sterilizer). Unfortunately the first 2 doses I did at normal strength before I found out they needed a half dose, I changed the dosage after that.

Do you think this could be Ammonia Burn? The tanks got good filtration and flow, and has always tested 0 for Ammonia, but could there be build-up in localised areas? They do like to hide-out in all the tight spaces. Or do you think this could be something else?

(sorry for the essay, I do like to be thorough!)

Many thanks in advance,
Ed

[Diana]

I cannot really see much in the video.
Can you isolate and post the most relevant pics?

If the ammonia has consistently read 0 ppm, then I do not see how it could be ammonia burn.
Some Loaches have black markings elsewhere than the regular striping, does it look like normal coloring, just out of place?
Some fish can get burned by staying too close to the heater. The burn may show as a small spot if it is minor, but can also show as damaged tissue if it is worse. Is the heater in the horizontal position? Is it hidden in a place the Loaches like to hide in?

As for over crowding, if your nitrite stays below 20 ppm, and can hit as low as 10 ppm or lower then the tank is not over crowded as far as waste goes. If the fish are getting along socially, then it is not over crowded that way, either. I would be very careful as the fish grow, though. Small fish do not produce a lot of waste. A fish that is twice as long as it was a few months ago produces eight times the waste. So watch out and be ready to move these fish into larger tank(s) as needed.

In your title you call it grey patches. This brings to mind a bacterial infection caused by Flavobacteria columnaris. You might google some of its common names and see if any pictures come up that look like what is happening to your fish:
Columnaris, Saddle Disease, "Fungus" (it is not a fungus).

[EdSabine]

Hi Diana,

Thankyou for your informative and friendly response.

I've just had a look at pictures of fish with that disease and the lack of "cottony appearance" as one site put it would seem to indicate that it's not that. I'll be keeping an eye on them to see if anything appears.

The clowns have been very secretive (much to my dismay - and what lead to me getting the rainbows - the kuhli's laze about all over the place!) and it's difficult to tell if those markings were there when I got them.

Here are a couple of pics highlighting the areas I'm talking about.



A couple of the other clowns have broken stripes and it's very obviously black where they have the markings, which is what concerned me about these two fish, as it's definately a dis-colouration of the gold, over a largish area. I hope I'm just being an over-protective parent (being so new to all this).

I've gone for external heaters on the tank (Hydor 300w for the main heater, and recently added a Reena 150w for backup - set to a lower temp should the Hydor fail) so there shouldn't be anything there to cause problems.

The fish have been getting on really well... Elvis (the fire eel) had a sniff of the Kuhli Loaches a few times when out on his evening rounds as they look very like the worms he enjoys, but it's never been more than that, he knows the difference, and the Danios eat so much they're almost the size of the Kutubu Rainbowfish so he's never even looked at them.

I've strategies in place for problems (mostly based on a mate taking anything that gets picked on), and am already getting an itchy finger for tank no2

[Diana]

I see the spots in the pictures. They do look greyer than the regular striping. They could still be common coloring, or it could be the beginning of columnaris. It does not look cottony at first, but looks like a flat grey or almost white area. These pics seem to show it as too dark, but still...

Other thought: you have 2 Loricariads in there. Could either of these fish be sucking on the sides of the other fish? This behavior is known in Common Plecos, and Chinese Algae Eaters, and I have seen a post from someone who actually caught Otos in the act.
I have not heard of this in other species. (And I have quite a few cats myself)

[EdSabine]

Thanks Diana

I'll keep a close eye on them and see if there's any change. They're behaving normally and don't appear to be affected in themselves, so it could be me worrying over nothing. I don't want to medicate unless it's absolutely necessary.

I certainly can't rule out it being one of the plec's. They tend to hang out in the same corner as the Gold Nugget (at the back left behind a piece of wood - it's a favoured spot for most of the Coreys and the Eel too) so it could be him... there's probably enough wood to keep 50 plecs happy in there

I'll keep an eye out for any untoward behaviour though.

Thanks for taking the time to help. I'll let you know how I get on.

Ed