Clowns not eating, have spots - please help

[tmcmullen]

I could be over reacting a little, but I don't want to lose my 9 year old clowns after just investing in a 75gal tank primarily FOR them!

Trying to make a long story short, after moving to the larger tank I learned that moving old water and using the old filter just wasn't enough to get the cycle going immediately, so I had to deal with nitrites and nitrates for the first week. Several water changes and a week later I finally have 0 ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite, and PH is good. Temp 82F.

Clowns were more stressed than rainbows and yoyos. Dojo also highly stressed. Clowns and dojo had cloudy eyes, so I treated with MarOxy. MOST of the cloud cleared up, but it's not 100% gone. LPS recommended Maracyn2 as a follow-up to MarOxy, but instructed me to wait a few days after the last MarOxy treatment to make sure it was necessary.

Today is the 5th day of Maracyn2 and their eyes are still a little cloudy (about 50% improvement). Dojo looks much better, but has frayed fins. Clowns aren't eating from what I can tell, and they usually aggressively go after food. I have been putting in blood worms and shrimp pellets, but they aren't interested. They stay in the current from the filter and just "swim in place" Sometimes they swim upside down, or nose down, but they aren't doing their dances and they're not eating.

One of my larger clowns has black spots on it's back. They are about the same size as ich spots, but they aren't ich, they're black. I've read some other posts about similar spots, but I'm not sure if they're the same.

Also, the clowns seem to look like the tops of them are darkening. Like their skin is turning a darker color only on the tops of their bodies. Otherwise their color is good.

Please help. I really want to make sure they get any treatments they might need.

Thanks in advance!

[Diana]

Fraying fins are common when there are ammonia and nitrite in the water, and when the nitrate gets too high. It can also be caused by other things like the wrong pH. SOund slike you have these issues under control, though. If the fraying fins are still not clearing up, bacterial infection is my next guess. Maracyn II should help. Many fish diseases are caused by Gram negative bacteria.

I remeber some posts here a year or more ago about black spots, sort of like Ich on Clown Loaches. Turns out it was related to poorly rinsed activated carbon. If you use AC, then rinse it REALLY well to be sure ALL the dust is gone.

Dojo Loaches are cool water fish. They might be stressed at such high temperature. Maybe they could cope when there were no other issues going on, but the stress of moving and the brief re-cycle might be too much on top of the too-high trmperature.

[tmcmullen]

Thanks Diana. I was using activated carbon, but after conversations with you and another member I have pulled the carbon out and will stop using it.

I try to keep the temp closer to 78 since that is a temp all fish in my tank can tolerate. I've been slowly lowering that temp - we had a few 90 degree days in a row and my husband refused to turn on the AC. When I noticed the tank getting up to 86 I started adding ice and turned on the AC.

The dojo had frayed fins prior to the move. His health hasn't been so good for over a month, but after the MarOxy and Maracyn2 he does seem to be more active.

What should I do about the clowns cloudy eyes? Is there any concern when their color seems to be coated with a dark gray or black tint? I've seen this before and it usually goes away with time. I'm just overly concerned right now because of the move.

[Diana]

Of the several problems you mention I would rank them this way:

Frayed fins and other issues from water quality would be the first priority. Easiest to treat, since water changes and monitoring the fish are about all you need to do.

Frayed fins that are NOT related to water quality would be second on my list. If the water quality has improved, but the fins are not getting better, then there is a disease issue. If the water quality has not fixed the problem, the next treatment would be antibiotics. Do not combine medicines, unless both packages are labeled as safe to use with each other. A break between treatments is good.

Third, or tied for second place with fins would be cloudy eye, and here is the order I aould treat:
a) Water quality. Might be cloudy because they rubbed their eyes when you were transporting them from one tank to another. Plastic buckets are the usual culprit, and time heals it. The timing of the eyes clouding up when the fish were moved, followed by water quality issues suggests this might be the problem, and time and good water will fix it.
b) Disease or parasite would be a second possible diagnosis, so treating with antibiotics is a good way to deal with it at this point.

Fourth issue would be the dark spots and general darkening color. Removing the carbon is the first step. If the problem stabilizes, and starts going away slowly that is all that needs to be done. Again we return to good water quality and time.

If the treatments you have done so far are helping, then perhaps a second round will finish the treatment. If the medicine you have used really is not curing the problem, you then need to think about a different medication. Minocycline (active ingredient in Maracyn II) is only one of many antibiotics that are available to treat fish. Do a little research for a medication that has different active ingredients, and treats different organisms. The frayed fins and the cloudy eyes can be caused by several different organisms. If one medicine is not slowing the disease, then another may target the bacteria better. Seeing a 50% improvement seems to me that the medicine IS the right one to use, and I would do a second round. (Do a big water change then start another 5 day treatment)

Also, make sure you are using the medicine correctly. One of the Maracyns is light sensitive (I don't remember which one) If the tank light is on, or if you are running a UV you might be degrading the medicine before it has a chance to work properly.

Keep a close watch on the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in the tank. Any hint of ammonia or nitrite suggests the nitrifying bacteria may not be doing so well, and reduced or no nitrate can mean the same thing. (In a planted tank 0 ppm NO3 simply means the plants are starving for nitrogen)

[tmcmullen]

Okay, since most of the improvement I had seen was after using MarOxy, and I haven't really noticed much difference after the expensive treatment of Maracyn2 I will keep up on water changes, watching them closely and hope that the cloudy eyes are from the transfer. It was a stressful catch/transfer for them, so that very well could be the problem.

Thank you so much, I greatly appreciate your help.

[tmcmullen]

It has been almost 2 weeks since I've seen my clowns eat. They are swimming in the current, and at times breathing rapidly. Water quality is good. Nitrite is 0, nitrate is 10, ph is 7.6.

I've fed brine shrimp, shrimp pellets, blood worms, and they just don't seem to have an appetite. I showed my LPS guy a video of them to see if he thought there was anything concerning and he said he is concerned about the "red streaks". I see some reddish coloring at the base of the tail, and a little red along the top half of their bodies, but not necessary red streaks.

Please help.