African dwarf frog- 2nd one died now

[Crissyloach]

About a week ago, I got 6 african dwarf frogs and put them into my 10 gallon QT tank. (tank is 10, 20, 12 inches) An hour ago, I found the second one belly up on the botton of the tank. The first one was found the same way, in almost the same spot. The tank is heated and filtered. Filter is an aquaclear 5-15 gallons.

They do not look extremely skinny. They do not show any signs of fungus. I dont know what to do! What could I treat them with? What can I do? I do not want to loose all of them to whatever problem that they have. I have been wondering- The light on my tank gets pretty warm. When they go up for air, could they jump out of the water and hit the light, 'shocking' them? They are laying under the light when I find them dead. Is there something wrong with the food I feed them (see below).

I am feeding HBH frog and tad. bites, and I am planning to get some frozen (NOT freeze dried) bloodworms very soon. Nothing new has been added- only has the frogs, filter, heater, silk plants, and some terra cotta pots. Most of theese things were in the tank at the time of setup (once again- 1 week ago). I do regular weekly 20-30 % water changes- more than that now see below. I am aware that the ammonia level is higher than 0, and I am doing water changes more often to help with that. What can I do/treat them with? If this is not enough info, I can add more and try to get a picture.

[starsplitter7]

What is the temp of the tank? I know I have lost new ones easily. Usually if I can keep them a month or two, I am good to go.

[Crissyloach]

The temp is 78 and sometimes 80. I am watching it, and it is usually 78.

My 30 gallon tank is covered in ick, so knowing the medication that I have can hurt the loaches and some fish at the full dose, I had to move the frogs to my 16 gallon (changed my mind about putting them with the bettas(bettas are still in the 10 gallon), and use the 10 gallon QT tank for the loaches. The loaches also have the worst of it. I have already lost one to juming the tank. I do not know how he could get out. I heard him on a bag the first time, and the second time I found him dead under a table. This is upseting, because he was our first loach. I have written another post on all of this.

The frogs seem to be doing a lot better now that I have the frozen bloodworms. I put some in last night, and right away, the neons were at them. The smallest one was swimming around with a long worm sticking out of his mouth. They only had one or 2, but the fish looked really full. Is this okay? They all had big bumps at the front of them. I put the worms on a little terra cotta plate, and the frogs were right at them. They really like them more than the pellets.

[Crissyloach]

I am down to 1 more frog. Lost 1 for no reason, and now lost 2 more. The tank is fine- parameters are perfect, temp is fine, Fish are doing great- no losses, just recently did a water change- used same conditioner and everything. The day before they died I found them floating at the top of the tank, still alive. The next day (25th) They were dead, stuck in a plant. What is going on? Theese frogs being $10 each and having them all die within 2 months of getting them is just not right. They are well fed (bloodworms...frozen of course...and hbh frog pellets) I feed every 2nd or 3rd day. What could it be?

[Diana]

Not a frog expert, but treating as if it were fish:

You said the ammonia was up a bit.
I would do more than just water changes to get it down. Add some nitrifying bacteria to the system. One of these:
Tetra Safe Start, Microbe Lift's Nite Out II, Dr. Tim's One and Only.
These products have the actual species of nitrifying bacteria that the tank lacks.

Good that they started to eat better when you changed their food, but I have no idea if bloodworms are OK for frogs.
A bulge when am animal eats is OK as long as they digest it pretty fast (several hours)

Frogs are more sensitive than most fish to environmental toxins. Their whole skin area absorbs things the way a fish's gills do.

[Crissyloach]

Ammonia is 0 now that they have been in the cycled 16 g. tank for a while now. I have been adding nutrafin cycle, along with the nutrafin brand water conditioner as it says to do.

I have no idea why they died- the fish are fine as I said- i have been testing the water- that is always fine. They didn't show any signs of disease (that I knew about) but it could be anything.

I forgot to add to my last post- when I took them out of the tank, it looked like my oto's were sucking on them a bit. Should I be worried? They do not show any problems so far, but what should I look for just in case the frogs had a problem of some sort? (other than the common diseases)

[Diana]

Yes, it is known that some Loricariads and other algae eaters will suck on the sides of some fish. This is not the first time I have heard this about Otos, but it is the first time I have heard about the prey being frogs.

I had thought the Oto/Pleco/CAE needed more protein in their diet, and slime coat of tank mates is an easy source, if the tank mates hold still for it. Offering the algae eating fish a more carnivorous based wafer might be part of the answer, but not keeping them with possible victims is best.

Perhaps the rasping of the Otos injured the frogs and allowed a fungus or bacteria to attack?

[Crissyloach]

I hope not. Quite possible- my frogs are pretty slow. My otos don't eat any of the food I put in the tank for them it just ends up rotting, and I then take it out. I have tried all kinds of food- they just dont eat it. I wish I knew about the sucking on others before... I knew about it a bit, but never really thought about it.

I found the skeleton of a frog in the tank today. (I am sure I will find more too ) The last frog- gone.

I am upset- I have purchased 9 frogs total, and I have a credit for 1 that I brought in before the end of the warrranty. NOt sure if I even want to get that right now...I would rather get my money back. With each frog being $10, that makes over $80...GONE!!! I didn't even get a chance to enjoy them if you know what I mean.

X 1000

[starsplitter7]

I am so sorry to hear about yur frogs, I can't believe they were so expensive. Ours are about $3. Of course, it doesn't matter when you care about the critter you lose. It is sad.