ICK!!!

[Crissyloach]

* Type of fish that are affected (common name and latin name if possible - common names vary worldwide, latin names don't!).

Clown loach (planning on getting a bigger tank for them...), zebra loach, cardinal tetras, bolivian ram

* How long has the tank been set up for?

3-4 months (ugraded from 16 gallon)

* Size of tank.

34 gallons.

* How is the tank being filtered?

2 30-40 aquaclear Hob filters

* Water temperature.

78-80

* Your maintenance regime (e.g. how often water changes are carried out, what percentage of the water is changed each time, how often you clean your filter/s and how do you do this?)

30-45% weekly or 15% twice a week.

* Has anything new been added to the tank recently? (fish, plants, live food, decor etc).

Cardinal tetras, clown loaches, bolivian ram, dwarf neon rainbow fish, glo light danios

* What other fish are in the tank?

glo lights, cardinal, black neon, gold neon, red eye tetras. Bolivian rams, dwarf neon rainbows, albino BN plecos, BN pleco, zebra and clown loaches, glo light danios.

* As detailed a description as possible of the symptoms the fish are exhibiting

White spots, and rubbing against gravel and ornaments.

* How long ago the affected fish were added to the tank, and how long the fish have been displaying symptoms.

Cardinals- 2 weeeks ago
Loaches- 3 months ago except for 1 clown who was added 2-3 weeks ago.
Bolivian ram and all of the others: from the start (3-4 months).

Noticed last night.

Our first loach is dead after jumping the tank 2 times in 1 hour. The first time I was in bed, and heard him on a plastic bag. Second time- found him dead, on the floor. So sad...they are our favourites 1 cardinal also died.

I had my frogs in the QT tank, and knowing the medicine that I have can hurt the loaches at higher doses, I had to move the frogs, and set up the tank for the loaches. The loaches also have the most spots. They are in the tank with the cardinals, and are being treated with API super ick cure. I am raising the temp in both tanks with the meds.

[Diana]

Lots of info here already as stickies and posts about Ich.
A few more ideas, for you and for anyone else reading along.

I would encourage you to do plenty of thorough gravel vacs to remove as much as possible of the Ich that has fallen to the floor of the tank, no matter what other treatment you do.

Here are a few more ideas:

Some fish are more tolerant of certain meds than others (as you have noted). Do some more research about which fish are better (or worse) at handling different meds or different doses. Separate the fish and treat the two tanks with the medication that those fish can handle the best. (I think you are already doing this)
Or different temperatures. Clown Loaches, for example can handle much higher temperatures than most Danios. You could put the Clowns and other heat tolerant fish in one tank, and get it up over 86*F, and likely kill the Ich even without meds. Danios and others that prefer it cooler would be in the other tank, as warm as they could handle, and would need medicines, or constant water changes.
Bare bottom tanks are the easiest to vacuum.

Separating the fish that show spots from the fish that do not is probably not the best. All the fish have been exposed, some may simply have younger (smaller) Ich organisms on them, and the Ich will be growing and may show up in a day or two.

[Crissyloach]

Thanks for your help so far. I have seperated the fish, and I am treating both tanks. The cardinals have been mysteriously dissappearing, so I figured that since they have ick (and similar treatment tolerence), I might as well put them in with the clowns, and watch what happens to them. Also, I am using a half dose in this tank, and I have been reading that tetras are usually sensitive to ick meds. I also knew that 2 weeks before I got them, they were treated for ick. I figured this out after I got them. I did just over a half dose in the main tank. Tomorrow is the day for more meds in the QT tank, and I am doing a water change- reccomended or not. I am not going to add more meds in the main tank- today is the first day of treatment in there. I also do not want the meds in the tank to get to be too much.

The instructions are: add one pack per 10 gallons of water, and in 48 hours add one more pack. In another 48 hours do a water change, and add carbon. I do not think this will be long enough. What do you think? The meds are API super ick cure. If it is not long enough, what do you reccomend? How often for water changes, and adding more? Also, how much longer should I treat after there are no more spots? I have heard anything from 3 days to a week.

[ahmandi2]

I hope that your fishies all recover. THat sucks to lose one from jumping (

[Crissyloach]

THanks The loaches dont look good!!! They are covered in it. I am worried that they are actually getting worse. I woke up today and found out that my heater brought the temp up to 92. I guess that is not high enough to hurt the clowns yet, but in a while it will. The heater was still heating too. I lost a cardinal at the same time as that loach too.

The main tank was 90 too. The fish- especially the danios- are by the filter return. I am worried about this tank especially. The fish dont show any spots, but they show all of the symptoms. I am medicating, and the temp is way up.

I need to cool down the tanks. At least 8 degrees in the loach tank. I am worried tht this will be too much for them in one day, and it will shock them. I am going to do a water change, and add cooler water in both tanks. I might just float a bag of cooler water in the main tank- I am not sure. I will not let it get lower that 4 degrees at once.

[starsplitter7]

I would do a water change and vacuum and bring down the temp a little like 86-88.

[Crissyloach]

Exactly what I did. The loaches look really bad. I know it has not been the full treatment time yet, but its really bad!!! They are COVERED in spots. The cardinals are about the same. What other medicine could I use if that is needed? I have heard coppersafe, but I have also been told not to use it with the loaches.

[Crissyloach]

Please help. I have lost all but 1 cardinal, and the loaches are bad enough that I think we might loose them. (Hope not )

1 more thing- Do you think I could use aquarium salt and up the temp to about 86ish? I would get rid of all meds first. I have the salt already, and I would add about 1-2 tbsp total. Once I need to do a water change, how much more salt would I add? I am aware that the salt is not good for some of fish, and I wouldn't want it to be too hard on the loaches. I would take out about 2 1/2 gallons as I need to...(every day? 2 days? At all?) I would not be treating the main tank. I have the clowns in a QT tank- only this will have the salt in it.

I really need help. I have lost enough, and do not want to loose theese clowns.

[chefkeith]

Don't use aquarium salt. Use food grade salt, like Kosher salt or Canning & Pickling Salt. Aquarium salt is evaporated sea water, which will raise the GH, KH, and pH of the aquarium. Raising the pH, can sometimes make ammonium convert to ammonia, which is toxic to the fish. Calcium and Magnesium ions are also harsh on the fish during the osmoregulate process. Food grade salt is pure sodium chloride, NaCl, which is easier on the fish to acclimate to and won't change the pH.

When you add or remove salt it needs to be done very slowly. A salt solution should dripped into the tank over the course of a 2 or 3 days.

When doing water changes, you don't want to change the salinity of the water until the ich treatment is over.

It will take about 20 - 20% water changes to remove 95% of the salt in the water.

Salt dosage for treating ich is usually 1-2 teaspoons per gallon of water.

I've never had much luck with ich medications. This salt treatment has worked for me and many others in completely eradicating ich, but it needs to be administered properly for it to succeed.

A TDS meter would be of great help so that you can accurately gauge the salinity levels of water.

Raising the temperature will make the ich life cycle speed up, but it will also decrease the oxygen level of the water. When loaches are heavily infested with ich, I think getting them more oxygen is critical. Salt will kill the ich on its own, so you really don't need to raise the temperature. You just need to give the treatment more time to work. Lowering the water level to just a few inches so that the water just barely covers the fish may be the best way to get the loaches oxygen. Keep the surface of the water well agitated with an airstone.

Do not feed the fish until the ich is gone. You don't want them producing ammonia. Use a ammonia detoxifyer like Amquel Plus or Prime if necessary.

You can do 50-100% daily water changes if you accurately match the salinity level of the tank water with the water change water.

[andyroo]

Keith,
Does this much salt damage plants?
A

[chefkeith]

andyroo-- plants may get damaged. so yes. But they should grow back. My Crypts, Vals, and Anubias had no problem recovering.

[Crissyloach]

I have lost 2 clown since this morning when I checked them. The only loach I have ick free is the little zebra loach. (Botia Striata) The main tank is clear, no ick. The qt tank is another story. I have 1 cardinal, and 1 clown loach. The clown is still covered in ick. The tetra is almost clear. I will do 1 more dose to make sure he is clear.


Theese are my new cardinals- $9 PER FISH (X6). They are hard to find here. All bought 3 weeks ago.

2 clowns

1 Zebra loach

GONE.

[Diana]

The clown is still covered in ick. The tetra is almost clear. I will do 1 more dose to make sure he is clear.

The Ich on the clown will fall off over several days to a week or more.
They are not killed by the medicine in this phase (on the fish or on the floor of the tank). When they fall off they start to reproduce. The babies are the ones that are killed by medication. They are only vulnerable for a day or so.
You do not know when the Ich on the fish will fall off, so you need to keep active levels of the medicine in the water until all the ich has gone through the vulnerable phase.

You must keep on medicating until ALL the Ich has fallen off and reproduced. Several days to a week longer (after you see the fish are clear of Ich) is a reasonable length of time.

You cannot bounce around dosing some, then skipping, or doing "just one more" dose. This allows some Ich to survive and re-infest the fish.

One more dose is not enough.

[Crissyloach]

Yes I agree now that I am reading this again. I lost the last clown this afternoon. I am medicating as the pack says- not skipping a day. This cardinal has been clear almost since the start (has changed- see below)- only having a couple of spots that fell off in 2-3 days. I am treating at full dose- Have been doing a lot of reading, and talking to friends. I will need to do more than 1 more doses. (1 dose being 1 pack, and after 2 days add another, 2 more days, water change.)

I am kinda confused. The fish definately had the ick (and still did when they died) but the cardinal now has ick again, and the last 2 clowns that I lost have this weird thing that the cardinal now has. It looks like little bits of parmesan cheese, hanging off of them. Almost like fungus, or like they are starting to decompose(???). What is this?

[Crissyloach]

Last cardinal is dying. He was stuck on the filter, so I put the net in to take him out, and he moved. He must have swim bladder problems- cannot swim straight, or swim the right way (is upside down). Also looks like he cannot move his fins. He has little red spots (not normal) on his gills. The filter is pulling him around the tank, and if I didn't see him move he would be in a bag. I always try to check that the fish is dead before I take him out.