Loaches Online Forum

Hi, I need help/advice

I have 3 Clown Loaches and 1 Pleco, I've had them all for about 4 years now. Recently we moved them from a 35g tank to 75g. We did it to soon and now it seems the tank is cycling. It has been up for about 3 weeks now. The first week we put Safestart in and the second week we added the fish. Its been two weeks with fish in. Tank did have 1ppm ammonia and 0 nitrites now:

Temp 80
Ammonia .5
Nitrite 1.oo (on the dip stick test its reading 3.0)
Nitrates 20
PH 8.2 8.4

Two marineland bio wheels which have been giving us trouble since we put sand substrate in. Waiting on a Eheim filter.
Fish are not eating much and we have stopped feeding. I have been doing 10% 15% water changes every other day.
Concerned Nitrites are to high. I have read that you should do small water changes during this time to help fish although some disagree. Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.

I'm afraid I'm going to lose my friends.

Hello there,

Sorry about the trouble you are having. Did you use your old filter, gravel, decorations, . . . on the new tank? That would help with the cycling. Do you have friends or a fishstore that can give you gunk from their filters? That is an instant cycle. Where do you live? Do you have a local fish club? Someone there would be able to help you until your tank cycles.

I would do much larger water changes until your tank cycles. I usually do 25-50% changes every two weeks depending on the size of the tank.

Your sand should settle -- did you rinse it? Is it heavy sand? I use pool filter sand and add water without the filters on, so the sand doesn't get sucked into the intakes. Take the filters apart and clean the sand from the impellor so that you don't ruin your impellors.

Increase the oxygen in your tank by adding a good bubbler, and dropping the water level, so the water is splashing. This will help your compromised fish.

What water conditioner are you using? You can add a little extra Prime to help control your levels. Make sure you have good oxygen levels with the addition of many water conditions.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply. I live in Tampa,Fl.

The sand seems light (got from pet smart aquarium sand) and we didn't wash it first which we didnt think of until after the fact. We did leave two of our old filters in the tank for about a week and a half. Water always treated with Prime and just added two more cap fulls. Going to get bubbler now. Ammonia is low but nitrites still high.

We are doing about 10%-15% a day last 4 days. Should we up it???

We took apart inside of filter to clean several times including impeller. Seems to be working okay. We are waiting on a canister filter from Eheim. Read its suppose to be good with sand.

What is pool sand? Should we add Safe Start for good bacteria?

Okay, here's the good news. Prime always leaves a trace of Ammonia if you check your water with an API test. (If you are using the dip sticks, I don't find they work well. Ask Petsmart to test your water, and write down the numbers. I just say that because usually they just say the water is fine. I know you're not a newbie.) Buy a Seachem Ammonia indicator that hangs in the tank -- about $8 at Petsmart. It lasts for a year, and varifies if your ammonia is up or if the Ammonia reading is a false positive due to the Prime. Prime is my favorite, but it converts the ammonia to a non-harmful substance. It is still useful to the bacteria that eat it. However it does not rid the tank of ammonia -- just makes it safe. WIth Prime you need extra oxygen in your tank, because it can drop the oxygen levels. I would be concerned about the Nitrites being up, because to me that means that cycling isn't done. How are you doing your tests? Is your kit old?

I would have left the older filters running on the tank for a couple months, especially with loaches. I try to have all my tanks double filtered. As many filters as I can fit, I try to fit on there. That way if a filter conks I have more cycled filters, if I need one for a Q tank, I have extras. . . . But I would never call my tanks pretty. They are more utilitarian.

Your readings need to be Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate less than 20. I worry less about Nitrate than Ammonia. Just keep up the vaccuming. Find out if that Ammonia is a false positive. If it is, your routine is probably fine. If your ammonia is actually .5, I would change a lot more water, because the Ammonia really hurts your fish, especially their gills.

If your tank still isn't cycled meet me at the TBAS auction on Saturday the the 22nd at USF, and I will give you an old filter cartridge with muck so you can cycle your tank. Are you a member of TBAS? If not, you should join. You do not need to be a member to go to the auction. There will be over 400 bags of fish, free fish food, give aways, raffles, door prizes, silent auctions, . . . http://tbas1.com/

You can buy Pool filter sand at Pinch a Penny pool supplies for $8 for a 50lb bag. Cheapest substrate. I rinse it well, but it doesn't float once you rinse it. I haven't found a bacteria supplement that actually works. Someone on the forum may know of one.

Make sure if you go to the fair in February to check out the fish tanks. It is sponsored by TBAS and a bunch of tanks come from club members.

Great you are close! We went to Petsmart and bought a round bubbler stone and a long bubbler to put on back of tank for oxygen.

I usually use the Freshwater Master Test kit where you add chemicals to water in test tube. It is old so I bought a dip test to compare the two. The ammonia is the same on both .5 but Nitrites are different. Dip reads 3 and kit reads 1on Nitrites and we have high ph hard water. We just bought this place and are thinking of adding a filter system or water softener to help. Any thoughts on that????

The tank is still cycling since the ammonia was high (at 1ppm) and is now lowering to .5 and Nitrites are rising. I will do larger water changes since ammonia is still high . I'll take your advice and take a sample to Pet Smart. We did add SAFESTART by Tetra when we first set this tank up because a employee from Marine Warehouse off of Hillsborough said it works. Now I read that in the long run it can make your tank unstable and sometimes cause it to cycle longer.

What is the API test kit I will get the Seachem Ammonia as well. We already added the sand substrate to our new 75g but when we go larger I'll use pool sand.

How often do you have to clean your filters with the sand? I was unprepared and when the two filters broke on our 50g I woke up and saw them gasping and tank was cloudy so that is why I moved them into the new tank to soon. Now its cycling with my poor loaches in it. I just through some old filter cartridges in the new tank with old gravel a week and a half before this happened along with the Safestart.

I just want to get them through this!!!

I am so sorry you have had such a rough time.

The API kit is the API Freshwater Master kit. It's the same kit. I found it on sale recently at Dr. Fosters and Smith for $23. Not bad. It is much better than the dip strips, which I don't think work.

If you get a chance, consider going to the auction, you might be able to get this stuff cheaper than at the stores, and there will be lots of free stuff. They got a bunch of donations, including fish food, and so they will be giving a bunch of stuff away. And I would be happy to give you filter gunk, which would instantly cycle your filters.

Here's a discussion on the TBAS forum about water softeners. http://tbas1.wiredtron.com/index.php/topic,761.0.html
I use a water filter on my tap and then treat with Prime. Seems to work well.

The only stuff I have heard could work towards cycling is Full Spectrum Pond conditioner. Used to sell it at PetWize on 56th and Busch. It smells a fright, but if it doesn't smell you know the batch of bacteria are dead.

I rinse my filter cartidges in tank water every other water change. I clean the filter intake at the same time. Sand seldom gets in the filters, and if it does, I rinse it out. I don't replace filter material until it disintegrates. I just rinse it. And when I do change it, I change one cartridge one week, and one the next, since I have two filters on all my tanks. If I am putting new water in the tank, I turn the filters off, so the swirl of water doesn't push sand up into the filter intake.

I would imagine your fish will survive this if they don't get too stressed. I am sure all those water changes are getting old. I have a python, but it doesn't fit on my sink. Augh! I need to find an adapter.

The actual nitrifying bacteria are in the species Nitrospira.
If a package does not specify those bacteria, do not waste your money.

Adding one of these products (Tetra Safe Start has the right species) then running the system for 2 weeks without feeding the bacteria has done nothing toward cycling the tank. The bacteria you added have mostly died before you added the fish.
If you were adding ammonia during those 2 weeks before you added fish then you were doing a fishless cycle, which is good. The bacteria had a good chance to get attached to lots of surfaces. I would be concerned with the filter problems you are having. These bacteria are high oxygen organisms, and if the filters keep quitting then the bacteria are not thriving the way they need to.

Either way, here is what I would do now:
MUCH larger water changes. As much as 50% daily to keep the ammonia and nitrite as low as possible.
Add the proper species of nitrifying bacteria, media from a cycled filter is a good source.

API tests get old. Some are OK out to about 3 years, some last to about 5 years. Given the different NO2 readings you are seeing, 1 ppm per old API test, and 3 ppm per new dip stick, I would act like the dip stick test is accurate, and do some massive water changes. Also, add salt. Sodium chloride. At the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons. This is a very low dose, but is plenty to reduce the amount of nitrite entering the fishes' blood system.

Keep the nitrite under 1 ppm, and the ammonia under .25 ppm with water changes.
Prime is a good dechlorinator, and will lock up some ammonia.