End of cycle, how many fish to add?

[Jaynie]

Hi Everyone

I'm a newbie to this forum and would like to ask some advice please.

I recently purchased a 48L tank with a strong powerhead, for the sole purpose of keeping hillstream loaches.

I was missold one as an algae eater for my peaceful community tank and very soon after realised I had made a bad mistake.

A very kind man at my LFS (not the one I purchased it from) offered to re-home it for me and after a couple of sad days of missing him we decided to buy a tank especially for him and a few friends too. They are kindly looking after him for me until the tank is ready

So here I am almost at the end of my fishless cycle and I'm now wondering how many fish to add and which species of hillstream loach live well together, I've had a good look through the species index and he looks very much like a Pseudogastromyzon cheni. They do not stock this species in the LFS hes the only one there. Will he be ok with other types of hillstream or is it best to have him with some of the same species?

Also I should add that throughout the cycle I've been adding 2mls ammonia daily, I obviously don't want to add more fish than would produce this amount of ammonia, could you please give me an idea of how many fish I'm best off adding? I should also add that my tap water is very hard and also has a fairly high PH.

Sorry to post such a large message, hope I'm not asking to many questions

Kind Regards
Jayne

[Emma Turner]

Hi Jayne,

Welcome to Loaches Online, its good to see you here.

A 48" tank will make an excellent river tank for hillstream loaches. Do you have all the decor in place? We'd love to see pics if you are able to take some. What filtration are you using and what make/size powerhead have you added?

Personally, now that you are at the end of the fishless cycle, I would think about adding a shoal of 'dither fish' first. When you eventually add your other fish, these will encourage reclusive species out into the open a little more. Good candidates for river tanks that have cooler than average temps and good flow would be Danio and Devario species (of which there are now a huge choice of beautiful species available), rosy barbs (Puntius conchonius), Barilius species, Lake Tebera rainbowfish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi), white cloud mountain minnows (Tanichthys albonubes), Vietnamese mountain minnows (T. micagemmae) and many many more.

With regards to which species of hillstream loaches to keep, they do tend to do well in groups, and some may even breed for you if conditions are optimal. Pseudogastromyzon cheni are available now and again, but the more commonly seen species are the Indonesian Gastromyzons and as of more recent times, the Vietnamese species Sewellia lineolata. Various longer bodied hillstream loaches are available from time to time too, such as Annamia and Homaloptera. All should live together in groups within a good sized aquarium without any major problems. You may see minor scuffles here and there, but these should not pose any problems and usually occur at feeding time or when arguing over a preferred resting place.

If the water parameters are quite extreme (i.e. very hard and alkaline) then it would be worth considering softening your water before adding any delicate softer water species. I use Reverse Osmosis water for all my tanks as the local water in Crowland is pH 7.8 and 20 dH and full of phosphates - not ideal for loaches in the long term. RO water can be purchased from most good aquatics stores, or you can install your own unit at home if you are not on a water meter and you have several tanks to carry out water changes on. The resultant pure soft water is then 're-mineralised' with a powder containing essential trace elements that the fish need.

Hope this helps a little, and feel free to ask away if you have more questions.

Emma

[Jaynie]

Hi Emma

Thanks for all your very helpful info, I didn't realise it was possible to purchase RO water, unfortunately I don't think its really worth me investing in my own RO installation as my tank is only very small, I'm sorry but I think you mis read my post as my tank is a small 48 litre one. I would absolutely love a 48" one but sadly I dont have any space in my house for one, every decent size wall space is taken up by radiators

I bought the tank from Maidenhead at Lincoln purely so we could rehome the little loach and some more beautiful little loaches. I'm not sure if you stock the tank in Peterborough but the one we purchased is an Interpet River Reef, the power head is an Interpet RR550lph, the filter contains sponges, clay tubes and carbon media (which I'm not sure I will keep in and could do with some advice on) . At the moment the tank contains sand, a couple of plants, bogwood, some slate and pebbles.
Also after testing my PH tonight its roughly 7.4 which as come down a bit since I set the tank up. I'm still unsure whether the Pseudogastromyzon cheni can be kept with other species of hillstream loach or whether I should try and purchase more of the same species from the place I originally bought it from. Do you have any idea of the stocking levels for a tank this size?

I dont mind if I only have hillstream loaches but a couple of danios or white cloud mountain minnows would also look lovely, though I'm unsure a small tank would give them enough room to swim around properly. Your the expert so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Again thank you for all your advice
Jayne

[Emma Turner]

Hi Jayne,

I'm really sorry, I did misread your first post and thought it was a much larger tank.

The Interpet River Reef tank, although quite compact, has a very good flow rate and the filtration and is pretty decent. I think you could add 6 white cloud mountain minnows to start with, monitor the conditions, and after a couple of weeks, and if all test results are ok, add 2 or 3 hillstream loaches. I have never actually kept P. cheni myself, but I can't forsee any real issues with keeping them with similar species. You could add the one you reserved, and Graham and I will both keep an eye out for more on our fish lists (and we can always move any fish you would like from Peterborough to Lincoln, with a few days notice). There are plenty of people here who keep or have kept P. cheni such as Martin, Les, Jim etc, who I am sure will comment if they read this thread.

If you have the space on a window ledge or somewhere, its a good idea to obtain a small tank/container and grow algae on some pebbles for the hillstream loaches - this will form part of their diet. Then when the cobbles are nicely coated, you can switch these with the ones in the tank, and put the ones from the main tank into the algae-growing tank to coat those and then repeat when needed. They will also need to be fed a variety of prepared foods, including vegetable matter and dried/frozen preparations.

Hope this helps,

Emma

[Jim Powers]

There should be no problem mixing hillstream species. I have kept P. cheni with others and had them spawn in these conditions.
Chenis will tend to be the dominant fish, chasing other hillstreams from food and prefered resting areas. This is usually not a significant problem provided there is ample food and resting areas (flat stones, etc) provided.

[Diana]

After a fishless cycle with 2 ppm ammonia I think the bio filter is ready for full stocking. Don't go overboard, but you have raised a generous population of nitrifying bacteria. Take advantage of them.

[Jaynie]

The Interpet River Reef tank, although quite compact, has a very good flow rate and the filtration and is pretty decent.

Phew I'm pleased you said that I was beginning to worry it wasn't suitable

I think you could add 6 white cloud mountain minnows to start with, monitor the conditions, and after a couple of weeks, and if all test results are ok, add 2 or 3 hillstream loaches. You could add the one you reserved, and Graham and I will both keep an eye out for more on our fish lists.

Thats fab thank you only prob is, is that the loach as already been at Lincoln 2 weeks now and I feel a bit bad that Graham is taking the trouble to keep it reserved for me. I can see it being at least a few more weeks until its back with us. I will have to ring him and explain. Also my tank isn't fully cycled, I thought we were almost there but the nitrite seems to have stalled Hope all the effort to rehome our Loach hasn't been in vain! People must think were crackers Our 5 year old still keeps asking when 'Charlie' will be back, bless her she named him.

If you have the space on a window ledge or somewhere, its a good idea to obtain a small tank/container and grow algae on some pebbles for the hillstream loaches - this will form part of their diet. Then when the cobbles are nicely coated, you can switch these with the ones in the tank, and put the ones from the main tank into the algae-growing tank to coat those and then repeat when needed. They will also need to be fed a variety of prepared foods, including vegetable matter and dried/frozen preparations.

Great idea, will definately do that. Got a window perfectly suitable for this.

[Jaynie]

Thanks Jim and Diana for your replies! Any advice is greatly appreciated