36x18x18 tank

helen nightingale · Post by **helen nightingale** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 am

you really need to fix those water parameters! ammonia and nitrite need to be 0, and your nitrate could do with coming down, because with ammonia and nitrite there, it may increase to higher levels.

i think your high readings are a good example of why people had advised you that you have too many fish.

you said earlier you are really worried about your modesta. if you are that worried, then you should rehome some fish, or get that big tank now.

sometimes good aquatic shops can reserve fish for you. another time, this would be better than stocking the tank so rapidly.

good luck to your fish

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:38 am

phil82 wrote:dutch: i might just give the BKG away.. thanks for your input.

I would certainly advise you to look for an adequate home for the black ghost. They are awesome fish, but require specialist care.

As for the current situation, I fear for the worst since you are combining at least two mistakes that add together.
You introduced too many fish at once, which can cause adverse water conditions. On top of that you have too many fish in the tank.

The number of fish by itself causes stress in fish, which increases their oxygen demand. Appart from that, if your nitrite levels rise further it will change hemoglobin to methemoglobin in the blood of your fish and that will cause anoxia, or oxygen definciency. I hope you see that these two effects only deteriorate the situation because they combine.

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:57 am

helen: are my water parameters really that bad? im fairly new to this hobby(about less than a year) and as far as i know, i only have a problem with my nitrates which can be solved by doing partial water changes. pls correct me if i'm wrong. dont worry will be working on the 90 gal tank in a weeks time.

thanks.

dutch: i'll definitely find my bkg a new home. and will monitor my water parameters daily and of course do more research regarding oygen. thanks again.

on a side note, all fish seem to be doing fine. most of the loaches are out and about even during the day except for the modestas, who do their thing when i turn off the aquarium lights at night. there's no fighting between the different species except for the yoyo's who really just quarrel amongst themselves. the rainbow shark is a bit territorial but i feel its nothing to be scared of. will try to post pics as soon as i can.

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:14 am

my tanks filtration consists of an overhead filter box connected to a powerhead with a sponge quickfilter. and i also have an oxygen plus bio-filter with two sponges and a flexible tube type airstone that gives off fine bubbles.

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:48 am

About the nitrite and oxygen. The problem is not in the water, but in the fish themselves. Nitrite is toxic because it changes the red blood cells so they can no longer carry oxygen. That's why low levels can already have a dramatic effect. It's really important to monitor that level.

This thread explains a little about stress.... http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=11568

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:28 am

here are some pictures of my fishes.
clowns

yoyo

neon dwarf rainbow fish

pleco

rainbow shark

i couldn't get pictures of the modestas..will post them as soon as i can.

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:10 am

Just a general question. Are those really yoyo's? They look like histrionica to me. Where is difference?

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:33 am

i really don't know..the shop where i got them from told me they are botia darios but i just assumed they were yoyo's but after looking at the botia histronica pics, yeah i agree, they're golden zebras. my mistake.

helen nightingale · Post by **helen nightingale** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:17 am

fish shops can get it very wrong when labelling fish sometimes, so its their mistake too. i think it looks like a histie. it definately doesnt look right for a yoyo. they are all cute fish

the reason why i am concerned about your water is that ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are poisonous to fish, with ammonia being more toxic than nitrate. the ammonia is in the water from the fishes excretion. (ragardless of the toxins issue, imagine living in a prison cell without even a bucket for a toilet. this is effectively what we do to our fish by making them live in bad water).

bacteria in the filter and elsewhere in the tank convert the ammonia into nitrite, which is less toxic than ammonia, but can still cause problems. the nitrite is then turned into nitrate by a different bacteria. nitrate isnt so bad in small quantities, but bacteria cant be turned into a harmless substance, so we need to do water changes to keep it down to safe levels.

when a tank is new, there will not be much bacteria about, and so there will be a risk of ammonia not being turned into nitrate very quickly. as the amount of food for the bacteria increases, the bacteria colony can get bigger and start converting the ammonia quickly. whan a tank is mature, there will be so many bacteria that ammonia will be converted as soon as it is produced by the fish (either that or used as food by plants)

once there is plenty of nitrite in the tank, the nitrite eating bacteria colonies start to grow and can convert the nitrite to nitrate quickly. agan, when the tank is mature, you shouldnt see any nitrite, as it will be turned into nitrate as quick as it is produced.

when a tank is mature ans stable, your readings should be ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate as low as you can keep it

my concern with your tank is that you have put a lot of fish in at once. they will produce waste, and it takes time for the bacteria colonies to grow bigger to consume of of their extra food. as you have ammonia and nitrite present, it means that the bacteria are not coping with the extra food, to them, or excretion, to the fish. untill the bacteria have grown their colonies, your ammonia is likely to get higher, as will your nitrites and then nitrates. this will put your fish at risk.

a big problem with poor water quality is that the fish cannot get as much oxygen as they need. their blood cannot carry as much oxygen, and their gills cannot absorb as much from the water. this can make the fish stressed and uncomfortable. also, the gills can get burned, which cannot be nice for the fish. when a fish is stressed, it can be easier for it to pick up disease. you do not want your fish to get ick/whitespot.

to me, your nitrate isnt so much as a problem as the ammonia.

when you do your partial water changes, try and keep as much of the gunk in the filters as you can, but still allowing enough water to flow through the sponges.

i just want to check that you know never to wash the sponges with tap water, and you dechlorinator that deals with chloramine too. i ask because i know people who have kept fish for a long time, and still havent learned that by not doing this, their fish dont survive long.

starsplitter7 · Post by **starsplitter7** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:04 pm

i just want to check that you know never to wash the sponges with tap water, and you dechlorinator that deals with chloramine too. i ask because i know people who have kept fish for a long time, and still havent learned that by not doing this, their fish dont survive long.

Just to add to what Helen was saying: You may have a wheel or a sponge that is part of the biofilter to colonize bacteria. You never touch them unless they get completely clogged with gunk (stopping the flow of water completely). These are considered part of the biofilter. These are different from the mechanical filter, which exists to trap suspended particles. This should be changed monthly or every two months -- I rinse mine and replace the charcoal every two weeks and change it out completely every two months. I have a tank that is slightly overstocked, and so I clean it often. Once in a while the bio sponge becomes clogged, and I rinse it in the tank water that I have removed as part of my weekly water changes. I also rinse filter cartridges in the tank water I am removing during the water change.

I am a relative beginner, which is why I am overstocked (inexperienced) and need to do all this extra cleaning to keep my fish healthy.

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:28 am

helen and starsplitter: thank you for all the info really appreciate it.

anyway, I did a water change about two days ago and water parameters are as follows:

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 40

i think the bio filters i added really helped alot.

btw, the CLs and modestas will be moving soon to a 75gal. will be leaving the golden zebras, neon dwarf rainbow fish, and the rainbow shark in the 50gal.

helen nightingale · Post by **helen nightingale** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:25 am

that sounds much better

having less fish in the tanks will make your life easier, as well as the fishes, and you will enjoy things more.

shari2 · Post by **shari2** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:41 am

Oh, and by the way, welcome, Phil.

Nice pictures and very nice little clowns. Like the praecox rainbows too. Got any full tank shots?

Seeing the pleco, now I want to know what kind it is. Doesn't look like a common plec, I don't think.

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:26 am

Thanks shari! i already have a tank pic in my computer at home. just have to upload it to photobucket. will try to post it here later tonight.

anyway, just wanna say that this site's really great! found out tons of info about these very adorable fish that i wouldn't have if i hadn't stumbled upon this site.

so here's a big THANK YOU to everyone here! keep up the good work!

phil82 · Post by **phil82** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:32 am

oh yeah, about the pleco, i really don't know what it is..they told me that it's a butterfly pleco but i doubt it. If anyone here can ID it for me, that'll be great.

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