New Dojo Loach issues...

[Nerina]

Hi all,

I recently purchased 3 fairly large dojo/weather loaches (4/5 inches). I currently have a 55 gallon tank that has 3 dojos (2 golden, one grayish) and 4 kuhli loaches. I put the 3 newcomers in a 10 gallon quarantine tank that has a top fin filter and a sponge filter. I put Stress coat in the water and a small amount of melafix because one of them had a "rub" mark on his face.

Since I got them home they have been panting their gills like crazy as if in shock. This has gone on for over a day and a half now. Only one of them seems to have stopped this behavior. I acclimated them for a little over an hour adding small amounts of tank water to the bag every 4 minutes etc...which I always do with my others fish with great success.

It now looks like they have ich and two are having swim bladder issues and the third might be heading that way. I had a dojo quite a few months ago that died after exhibiting this swim bladder behavior...he would either float off balance in the tank or swim to the top of the tank, take a gulp of hair...and pass it out like gas? I saw one of the fish doing this today. With my old fish no matter how I tried to medicate him he eventually found a way out of my tank and died on top of the glass...it was horrible.

These new fish are so lovely that I'd hate to lose them. Tonight I started them on Ich Guard II for scaleless fish because this worked successfully on some of my other dojos in the past. The swim bladder and panting thing is a whole other issue that I am unsure how to deal with. Any suggestions or ideas on how to help these guys would be appreciated...I have a horrible feeling I am going to lose them all and it took me so long to find a store that would order me some.

If you need the quarantine tanks water parameters I can post them tomorrow, but I've never had water quality issues in the past.

Thanks all,
Nerina~

[Diana]

Water test reports would be helpful.
Panting suggests difficulty getting oxygen. Could be any of several things going on:
Ich in the gills
Ammonia burns in the gills
Nitrite in the water, getting into the fishes' blood and causing Brown Blood Disease.
Water too warm, not holding enough O2.
Other.

As you can see, two of the possible issues are water related (and water changes are the answer), and another problem is helped (not cured, though) with lots of water changes.

Increase the water movement and keep the temperature fairly low. This will slow the life cycle of the Ich, but the medicines will still work, it just takes longer. More water movement will increase the O2, and circulate it better, and lower temperature will increase the O2.

Dojos are from cooler streams, and are not tropical fish. I have separate set ups for Dojos and Kuhlies. Their needs do not really overlap enough to keep them in the same tank. Dojos are in a tank with high water flow, and it stays about 72*F (22*C) except in the summer, when it climbs a few degrees. The Kuhlies are in a tank with less water movement, and the temperature is in the uppermost 70s, to 80*F (26-27*C, I think)

[adam]

I keep My Dojos in an unheated tub. It stays about 68-69 this time of year and about 70-72 during the warmer months. There is 4 or 5 Dojos alot of white clouds and a huge amount of java moss. The white clouds constantly reproduce and the Dojos eat flake from my fingers. Totaly cool stuff.

[Nerina]

Well, the fish didn't make it...it all happened so fast I don't know what they died from. This tank is just a 10 gal quarantine I setup for new fish or sick fish. The water was new and fresh other than 2 gallons from my main tank.

The rapid gill movement was noticeable the entire time I was acclimating them and onward. At this point I am going to return the fish and then decide what to do next....this was just such a mess...I don't understand where it all went wrong. They all started to have swim bladder type issues…unable to balance or stay at the bottom of the tank.

Water wouldn't have had an ammonia buildup nor was it over 75 degrees. I have no way of cooling the water anymore than that. I kept the lights out to reduce their stress and was changing the water daily at about 20-25%. Same thing I've always done but this time they all died. The only thing I can do is get a larger filtration system for this tank, but it has always been enough in the past.

This is such a let down...they were really beautiful specimens. Not sure where else I could buy them at this point...they have been so hard to find.

Nerina~

[Diana]

If you can make the quarantine tank water match the water they were used to this would help. If they were used to harder water than yours, or salted water, and you added them to softer water, and un-salted water their cells would take on more water than their system was ready to get rid of.
Have a look at Dutch's post about the effects of stress on the osmo-regulatory system of fish.

[Nerina]

Well, upon inspection one of the fish was still alive, though barely. I have since been performing numerous water changes and he has been hanging on. I can see clearly on the dead fish that their gills were red and irritated. His gills are inflamed and now one side is full of whitish stuff and he is struggling to breathe. I don't know if this is gill flukes or something else?

He is having a terrible time and I am not sure if there is any way to give him quick relief. Last night I started him on maracyn, but I don't know if this is going to help him if he is too far gone. He did make it through the night though...but his gills look worse. Any suggestions on how to get this gunk off his gills and improve his breathing would be welcome.

Thanks all for your help,
Nerina

[Diana]

You can add a small amount of hydrogen peroxide to the water to increase the oxygen. 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons. NOT MORE.
Good water circulation helps a lot, as long as it is not too disturbing to the Loach. Lowering the water level, or getting the Loach up near the surface can help, but do not keep him there if he seems stressed to be up there. Most animals want to hide when they are sick to avoid predators. Maybe you can get him to a shallow spot, but cover his area with some plants.
Cooler water holds more oxygen, but lowers the fish's metabolism, and he may not be able to fight off whatever this is.

Red gills sounds like an irritant of some sort. Ammonia, change in pH...
Stuff sounds a little like excess slime coat, but might not be.
I would NOT use an Aloe vera based product. I have heard of similar reactions when someone has used it: Irritated gills with excess slime coat.

[Laura]

Is your filter on the QT tank from an established tank, or does it contain all new media (foam etc)?
If it's all new, then it sounds like your tank is cycling and your ammonia and nitrites are too high for your fish and it's burning their gills.
Apologies in advance if you know all this stuff already, but if it is new media, I would keep doing large water changes, treating with chlorine remover, to try to improve the water conditions. I would add some dirty filter media from your established tank, and keep up the water changes, but not as large after you get things stabilized.
Do you have any test kits? If so, can you test and post the info?
Good luck with the little guy, I hope he hangs on.

[Nerina]

Well, the fish did end up dying. The red/purple marks around his gills and face were extreme. There was a buildup of this white stuff in one gill...making it almost completely non-functional. The water did not having any ammonia and my ph has always been around 7.8. I have never seen something kill fish that quickly before. I called the petstore and the guy is going to replace them for me (the one they had left in their store died also)...but, he will hold onto the new ones for me for a few days to make sure they don't exhibit the same issues.

Meanwhile I am going to completely remove everything that was in the quarantine tank. Then I am going to scrub it with salt and fill it with water from my main tank. I am tossing the old pump and getting a new one. I don't know what ended up being wrong with those fish, but I don't want to risk exposing any other fish to it if it was contagious.

I really appreciate all your help and will keep you up to date on the new dojo's which should be ready for pickup on Monday.

Thanks,
Nerina

[mistergreen]

you can use a solution of 1:20 bleach to clean your tank and all the equipments... It works pretty well and there's no danger... Just let everything dry completely and any bleach will be gone.

[Nerina]

Okay....I have the new fish acclimating as I write this. One is a jumper and has already keeps trying to go airborne . I completely salted down the tank, cleaned it, and rinsed it thoroughly. All the old gravel was dumped as was the pump. I purchased a new pump, the Elite Hush 20 HOB, and a new bubbler wand. I don't think I can oxygenate the water anymore than this. There is no gravel now in the tank, just a fake rock and some pvc pipe pieces for them to hide in.

The tank water for the quarantine tank is 90% from my established tank and 10% new treated with Stress coat. There are not any other additives to the water. The water in the quarantine tank tested (liquid test kit)...PH 7.6.-7.8, Ammonia 0 ppm, Nitrite 0 ppm, and the Nitrate also 0 ppm. The only thing that worries me is that there are no noticeable nitrates, but this tank is only setup for new/sick fish. I will try and get some pictures once the fish are finally acclimated and in the tank.

Any other tips or input is always welcome.

Thanks again all,
Nerina~

[Diana]

Did you test the water the fish came in for pH, KH, GH, TDS, salinity or any other parameters?

Does the pH in the Q-tank match were the fish came from?

[Nerina]

Did you test the water the fish came in

No...I didn't . I thought the whole acclimation process was in place to help them adjust to the changes in water conditions/parameters? I usually spend at least an hour acclimating...once temperature acclimation is met I slowly add water every 4-5 minutes...when the bag is full, empty half and start the process again...etc. If the water parameters from the store were very different from mine what could I have tried to address that issue?

I took some pictures of the tank and the new guys...I must say they seem better than the last group by far...no heavy gill flapping is evident at this point. How much water should I change each day, and should I just keep using water from my established tank or new water also?

Here are some pics of the setup and fish:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/S ... QTtank.jpg

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/S ... wdojo1.jpg

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/S ... ojos23.jpg

And this is the main tank:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/S ... 092107.jpg

Thanks for your help/input Diana...I do appreciate it.

Nerina~

[starsplitter7]

I wish you the best of luck with your new Dojos.

I know they are in the Q-Tank now, but I wanted to let you know, when you get them established, mine love floating plants. Mine float in it like lounging divas. I know some people have digging Dojos, but mine all float in the plants (anacharis and hornwort -- mine don't even care if they are the cheap plants).

Good luck, Tanja.

[Laura]

They look like cuties - better luck this time around. Your main tank looks great!
You said there's a new filter, but you don't mention putting in grungy filter material from your established filter to ensure your Q-tank doesn't go through a cycle. Again, apologies in advance if you already knew this.
Keep us posted.