River tank setup problem

[mikev]

Uggh, I think I messed up, but there ought to be a solution.

I've started another 29G for hillstreams today (no fish yet, but some pretty definite plans). Basically following the instructions Jim and Martin gave me before, but this time no undergravel filter (I want to plant it more seriously). Only after the tank has been fully setup we realized that the powerhead (402) will probably quickly kill the fish: the intake pulls very strongly and I doubt that any fish would be strong enough to resist the pull. Normally, the intake would rest on a UG tube, but it is not there... There was no appropriate cap in the powerhead box.

There ought to be some way to deal with this problem.....probably an obvious one, but I fail to see it right now.

The tank looks pretty nice right now and I hate the idea of scrapping all the work to install a UG filter after all.

Ideas, please?

[Jim Powers]

Is there a way to adapt a sponge filter to an Aquaclear? I may be mistaken, but I think there is a kit available for that. You could also make a river tank manifold.

[nuvolari]

Mikev i hope this hels you.

It my river tank that was setup for hillstreamers but unfortunatly they have had to be evicted to another tank.

The reason why is my L104 spawned and that a first for us Australians.

Here an image



Hopefully this give you an idea dude

[mikev]

Jim,

Thanks a lot.

Is there a way to adapt a sponge filter to an Aquaclear? I may be mistaken, but I think there is a kit available for that.

It is very likely that a sponge is the only approach that may work here, at least I don't see anything else.

If you happen to have any pointers, they will be great.

Maybe there is another powerhead that is strong enough but does not require an UG base?

You could also make a river tank manifold.

Not fully sure what you mean, but will try to reread Martin's article tomorrow. Replace 402 by a couple of smaller powerheads?



I have a pretty bad feeling about 402 now. That rasbora that died had a pretty major damage to its body... I found it under the powerhead, and the powerhead did come off the UG filter once .. *I think* like a day before that .... Now that I see just how strong is the pull, I wonder if this solves the mystery why the sucker disease killed a non-sucker.



nuvolari, sorry, don't follow.

[Emma Turner]

mikev,

You could fit a Hagen 'Quick Filter' to the base of your powerhead, which removes particulate waste and stops small fish being drawn in. However, these are approx 8" tall and it would either mean raising the level of your powerhead, or else you'd have to mount the whole thing at an angle, sideways etc. We use these on the powerheads in our Clown tank, and the downside is that they do get clogged fairly quickly and the cartridges have to be changed very regularly. Probably not such a problem in a tank where there is not such a heavy load of fish waste though.

By far and away your best bet is to create one of Martin's excellent manifolds, as detailed in his hillstream articles. The fish will appreciate the powerful uni-directional flow.

Emma

[Jim Powers]

If you make the manifold, you wouldn't necessarily have to use two powerheads, particularly in a 29. One big one would work.

[newshound]

jerry/jury rig a big sponge to the powerhead intake.
You know the ones that work on air bubbles.
I find the small sponges "clog" very quickly. Maybe not with such a powerful powerhead.
I run undergravel piping like Martin created for his rivertank setup.
I think this is ideal as all the waste is pushed to one side of the tank and is easier to clean and the filteration prob. works better.
later
ps- for all those CDN's...happy Canada Day

[mikev]

Thanks a lot Emma, Jim, newshound.

All clear now, I think . Hagen is available at a store here. If I understand the underlying logic, the only real difference of the manifold is to move the intake to the other end of the tank, but then that other end still would need to be covered...sponge or even with the same Hagen again?
(I'll try to get a manifold going, still have a few days before the loaches show up.)

[Jim Powers]

The manifold would have a spnge filter on the opposite end of the tank. Just check out Martin's info again. I don't think you should have any problem. You could actually make a manifold with one powerhead and one sponge filter intake at the other end, since you are using a 29. You could even put the sponge filter in the back corner out of the way.

[mikev]

Jim, thank, I've reread this carefully and see what to do. Assuming I'll find the parts I should have no problem.

[Martin Thoene]

Mike, the whole premise of my "eureka" thing with this design was getting intake away from outlet in order to give the fish a more natural flow in the tank rather than just "water movement". The longer the tank the better, but I've done lots of 20's and 30's. I have a 30 Breeder now with my Sewellias in it....well maybe it's a "hopeful" Breeder

That has a River-Tank manifold and one Aquaclear 802. That obviously has far more suck than your 402. Because it intakes through a 4" high by 4" dia. coarse sponge (pond pump pre-filter) it diffuses the suction into a quite harmless pull. Fish graze on the sponge in perfect safety.

My 65 River-Tank has two 802's sucking through 3 of these sponges, so the suck is spread even more.

The whole design concept is to:

Create primarily unidirectional flow "in tank" without peripheral clutter

Diffuse intake suction.

Enclose the powerhead intakes in a supporting base (the manifold).

Create biological and mechanical filtration (the sponges)

Be almost maintenance free (apart from sponge cleaning, occasional powerhead strainer cleaning)

Be simple to create and adaptable to parts obtainable in many countries

Be mainly hidden under the substrate

Be "future adaptable", i.e. you can cut and shut a manifold to reduce or increase it's size to fit another tank if you upgrade/downgrade

People have adapted and customized my design concept, but like alloy and magnesium custom wheels, it's still a wheel. ...If you want to invent the wheel.......

If I was selling these things it would be called "standing by my product". Guess this is "standing by my idea". A River-Tank manifold isn't an undergravel filter. It's a water transferance system.

Think outside the box. River-Tank manifold inside the glass box.

Martin.

[mikev]

Martin,

Thanks a lot for reiterating this & all your help.

I have to admit I did not grasp the concept fully until yesterday (and I did read everything you wrote more than once). Even your post above had something new for me -- I did not realize that your manifold actually can be the sole filter in the system, very neat if the case (but I'll have AquaClear there as a backup anyway).

The new tank is not going to have any big waste producers, like the BN's in the 1st hillstream tank, so hopefully not much cleaning. The other reason for no UG, incidentally, is that I plan on having kuhlis there.

(On an aside: perhaps you remember my powerhead-addicted kuhli girl? -- well, she did swim all the time for a couple months more; what finally stopped her was a huge green belly she now features, so high-risk behavior is over and she sticks to the favorite spot.).

Anyway, with luck I should have your manifold in soon. It is actually the only thing missing -- this time I managed to fully cycle it in 24 hours, so I can put any number of fish at any time. I'll show how it all looks when the inhabitants arrive.